hey Ray Charles Hoskinson here broadcasting live from warm sunny Colorado let me grab my microphone okay everybody hear me all right looks good okay let's begin so I just got back I've been traveling like crazy I was in New York and I was also in Mongolia unfortunately I caught some stomachs problems in Mongolia which moved over to New York and I wasn't able to continue my trip I was supposed to go to Germany to Euro Crypt and I decided to come back home and recover a little bit but I'm definitely feeling better and you know just get through the Schlag and you know get myself all ready for a June and July those are my last two big travel months and then after that my goal is actually to stay home for the entire year or a large chunk of the year so I'm not going to be traveling to many events or conferences after July it's mostly health-related but also I'd like to focus on a few ihk matters and less on external matters because we have too much deal flow and that's time to actually start executing on those deals as opposed to building relationships and so forth but anyway guys it's good to be here good to be back the weather is terrible in Colorado we have dreary dreary rain coming down and it was hailing a little earlier and I had to quickly get my car in the garage and we built a chicken coop for all those little chicks because they're growing up we also found out there's a terrible raccoon problem and unfortunately those chicks could be eaten so I got some advice from a bunch of different ranchers and they told me to get some geese and apparently the geese keep the raccoons away so it's an experiment but we'll we'll find out if it works all right well Sasa just came out that's a block exchange Explorer from a merc Oh real super excited about that the recent car now no effect episode number 30 starring David Esther made a lot of comments about the car Donald test net as well as the Shelly roadmap the 2020 roadmap we completely redid the whole website reskin Rochelle that it's broken into stages so you have Byron Shelley Goggan basho and Voltaire and each of those stages there's a litany of information associated with them so for Byron is just going to talk about what did we accomplish and how do you actually measure success and then we'll transpose that auntie Shelley for the goals of Shelley and then where we anchored you and Shelley and then the same for Cogan and so forth so that's a living document and it's going to be kind of built up over time and it's gonna be a lot of fun to see that evolved pretty rapidly as he mentioned the hope is to get the card on a test net rolling in June so a lot of work has gone into that there's a lot of pieces coming together now so if you follow the weekly reports on the haskell wallet back-end June 7th is when the new database is coming in for that so we're moving the sequel Lite from assets state and then also it should we should have a preliminary connection of the Hosko wallet back end with the russ code and that's required for the rest code to talk to the GUI so it's an important understanding and the first version of the test that is command-line interface it's not a GUI test net but obviously it is the final product we require a GUI connection so the Daedalus team has been building stuff and building stuff and the wallet back-end team has been building stuff and building stuff and the russ team has been building stuff and they're all going to come together at some point and right now they're coming together and pretty rapidly so look for that in June the state pool task force should have already had a survey come through if not it'll come through soon but basically asking people their level of technical competency you know where they all these other facts and circumstances behind where they're at and what they want to do and how much they want to invest and if they want to run a professional stick pool or something for their personal haida and they won't there is to be able to create a nice candidate set for the first beta that we run because we're very very closely with that initial group of beta testers to run a bunch of scenarios and hopefully be able to get a better understanding of what we did well what we didn't do well we've also been in discussions with kelskiy about how we're going to do an end and audit of the entire Cardinal stack there is enormous amount of code that we've written a lot of new code in it's good code we're very confident in it but one of the hallmarks of our entire ecosystem has always been peer review and so as a consequence we believe very firmly that you need third parties to analyze the code and make sure that the code is free of security issues so soaked Adamski's are preferred auditor they did the auditing on the card on our aside for Icarus and euro they also did the auditing for mantas which is our version of the etherion classic client so we're going to reengage them and have them systematically begin and into an audit of the entire card on a stack that we've reimplemented for Shelly and hopefully we'll get a clean bill of health there but that process is ongoing and it take a little bit of time but not a huge amount generally these audits take about three to six weeks it's just a question of what is the code frozen enough that it makes sense to audit it prior to rapid changes but a lot of form things have have solidified and so it does make sense to begin that audit specifications are all done now they're living documents so they're being upgraded as we decide to tinker and discovering new things and the formal methods team is already starting to move on to future stuff related to Kogan and related to future releases like or wars Chronos and so forth so those things are looking pretty good as well so anyway you know it's it's the Schlag this is the the most difficult part of any software project you know you spend this huge amount of time building stuff and then you get to that last part where you're actually ready to push something and it's just this endless walk through mud as you as you get to it because there's a lot of little things you didn't think about a lot of little things that come up towards the at the very end for example we're gonna probably need to make a slight tweak to the o BFT implementation that we currently have which means we're gonna have to issue a hot patch to one point five so look for a one point five point one in the coming weeks this is kind of last mile before we switch over to Opie of T so we'll make an identikit announcement about that but that should be the last week that we have to make on the on the buyer and code side then everything else looking forward is going to be Shelly code so so yeah that's where overall pretty happy with the way the engineering teams are working David Scher Bruno and Chris Greenwood are kind of a Power Team and they're doing a good job I got three demos this month on various different Haskell Cardinal things and we're going to be getting two demos next month on Cardinal Haskell stuff and the rest team has been giving us regular feedback as has the the wallet back-end team as well so the feature demos are looking pretty good and we're already having discussions with Tim and product marketing about how to open up these demos that we have and hopefully we will be able to do that in June after the roadmap comes out but I'm not June in July and then it'll be a regular event where every month or so will have some form of a demo and basically how that runs is it's like a Google hangout somebody's screencasting and they're showing you a particular feature talking around it and there's people there asking questions and so forth and you know we might do a to model one where we do one internal and then we rebroadcast it maybe even do it as an AMA style format so we're still trying to figure out the best format for that but we are the way we've been doing it internally is that they hang out with like 20 30 people in it and then they basically do a feature demonstration of some part that's complete like this is a sinking to the network or downloading blocks or this is a demonstration of new format that we have or in any of these types of things so look for that okay now anyway let's get to the questions I have a nice nice touch screen here and I hope you guys like David SR he's a he's a really cool guy you know he's been doing products now for about 30 years and he's working the valley actually lives on a houseboat now so it's hard to find him but still hangs around the San Francisco area from time to time and David's actually not only built stuff he's sold the stuff he's built and has successful exits so he tends to look at things in terms of a Minimum Viable Product and milestones and these things and he's working real hard on that roadmap okay and thank you Carano effect guys for having david on it's always nice sorry I couldn't make it I was running around New York at the time all right is in looking for stos be put in the ecosystem you know the answer is that we do anticipate tokens to exist within Cardno and in fact corrado from the very beginning was always engineered to be a multi asset ledger so we had this idea that there's eight as the native unit but then there's going to be other tokens that exist in the system and then there's a question of well there's really kind of several parameters you can look at now when a parameter is the parameter of fungibility so basically that means are all things the same or are they different so you know for example the this this is a headset for master and dynamic or something and you know these are little earbuds well they're relatively fungible unified by these I should be able to go to the store buy an identical set and my user parent should be the same whereas you know other things like you know this this notebook after I've written in it you know that's not fungible anymore because even if you go and buy another one of those notebooks you're not going to be able to replicate what I've written in it it's a non Frenchie glass of that so people artwork all these things like the art of the back that's that's not fungible it's one of a kind or it's part of a small set and variations actually make a big difference in the value and the contractual relationships to the item so any good token system should be able to support a fungible standard and a non-functional standard so for example with aetherium they have er C 20 so one auger token or one EOS token that was on the system I were identical to each other there was no story behind that would that would allow you to differentiate between the two unless you were purposely attaching meditator to the system the other side of it is non fungibility so let's say you tokenize a soccer team well you know one soccer team would be very different from the other soccer team for example I going in July to final via finalize the acquisition the Jinja hippos which is our our team in Uganda that is a very different team than the Colorado Rapids I'd love to say the hippos they're as good as the rapids and one day they will be but today there not so we have worked real hard but there are certainly facts and circumstances that are different there's even though they are both soccer teams they're there different teams entirely and so they're not fungible then the other axis is the regulatory collections on the token so is it an open unrestricted token meaning that Alice can send to Bob with no restrictions or is this a token with facts and circumstances the story's connected to it that would restrict the transference like for example can Alice only sent to Bob when Bob consents or when Alice gets special permission from the issuer bill of the asset and when you start wrapping some of those terms and conditions into a subset specifically to complying with US regulation or European regulation or some regulation for securities laws we tend to call that a security token now you can have a fungible or a non fungible asset that is the security for example I could securitize one of those paintings by in there that would be a security related to a none functional asset or a revenue flow associated with a patent portfolio patents are not fungible patents are different but it's still a security in the last or you can security shares of a company or mine and that that is fungible so you can live in any of those categories in that grade now the question is will Cardinal support it's not ginger it's ginger ginger is a city in Uganda ji nja so we'll Cardno support a security token standard and the answer is yes we've always desired to support a security token standard but the question is where will these security tokens live second what jurisdictions will these security tokens be resident within the problem with securities laws as securities laws do not respect global boundaries there is no situation where you issue a security let's say in the Marshall Islands or Bermuda and then that suddenly is a global security the US government says we accept those standards behind it in those terms and conditions no they say if I have that security if you bring it into our borders here now under US law I don't give a about the Marshall Islands or Bermuda you're gonna have to comply with our standards and then when you move from the United States let's say a German it's a whole nother conversation so we anticipate the types of securities that I which K will be working with with our partners and what Cardinal will be doing are gonna be the securitization of assets within operating domains that we happen to be in Mongolia Ethiopia Uganda these types of places where there's a lot of SMEs that want to securitize there's a lot of Natural Resources IP to securitize there's a lot of revenue claims to securitize like we could work out a deal for example where we can have a tax issued in let's say you Lambada in Mongolia to do an urban transportation system and basically we could issue debt against a revenue claim of those bonds and then collateralized that with natural resources and the gobi desert so you can do these very complicated securities and different issuer and audit relationships and so forth but that type of a deal we wouldn't structure let's say in Seattle or Oregon so when you look at things like polymesh the other thing I do work with it probably will be better suited in my view for the traditional securities markets probably doing with smaller verticals because those are always the first movers but I don't imagine they're gonna be running around Namibia or running around Western Sahara or something like that looking for interesting prospects it's a little bit outside of that team's domain whereas that's exactly what card on o is built for and those are the operating domains that were built in so there it's actually less about adherence plus a u.s. regulation a European regulation and it's more about just getting the claims right and just getting the audit trail right and getting interoperability with things that would enforce that audit trail those data sets that would enforce that and potentially also wiring it into international standards like for example some of these securitization plays that we make would potentially be connected to a third parties like the World Bank or the Asia Development Bank or let's say the World Food Program basically saying if they default or we'll cover that you know if that voucher default will cover that that's not something you would normally see if Microsoft was issuing stock or something like that so they're kind of a different markets different things to plan that said there's a lot of common DNA how do you handle identity what type of DSL do you use to write these types of contracts and how do you port them into a machine understandable system so I see a lot of cross-pollination that can occur and of course you know I'll always make my my best case for people who are on aetherium and they want to keep their tokens in that kind of layer to solution to migrate over card ah the ones available but I don't really have control over that that's that's a business decision on their side okay Charles you know that card Otto is your last chance in the crypto world right if Cardona feels you are gone for good in this world no hard feelings plan just being realistic okay you know it is a interesting thing when you think about legacy in the space card ah no in a way is already an enormous Lee successful project there are thousands of cryptocurrencies and you know I know if at least 2998 of them that would love to switch places with us and be in our position we're in the top ten and we have a lot of traction and interest and furthermore we earned it this is not by accident nobody gets into the top ten because they just stumbled into it there there is an enormous amount of collective research that's been done of code that's been written a community that's been constructed and we saw big problems we've solved proof of stake we've solved side chains I would argue we built the best programming language in the world and the most coherent vision in the world for how to write smart contracts and there's a certain degree of inevitability behind what we've done it's done a situation like with caspere where they're just grasping it what do we build and how do we get people behind it it's a situation where we know where to go we have the map we have the people we have the provisions in the supplies and you know sometimes the weather's bad and it takes us a few extra days to get through that valley or the roads washed-out we have to take a detour through but it's never been a situation where we've woken up and said you know we don't need to go to Dallas it's Phoenix and we got to completely change in the road or a new city and we have to figure out which one that is we know where to go we know what to do to get there so whether we get there tomorrow or we get there in six months I don't really care because we're going to get there and when we get there everything changes because the conversation is no longer when Shelley when Gogan will they do it the conversation will be how can you compete with what these guys have done and the only way I would argue to compete with us is to become like us so you have to start using research and do peer review you have to start using formal methods you have to up your code game and raise the software quality you have to be more honest and transparent and you have to be more open with people and you have have people respect longer timelines and even if that means that Cardona doesn't somehow win that I get to go off into the sunset knowing we fundamentally changed the entire culture and ethos scientifically speaking engineer speaking and product speaking for our entire industry and that's a win because ultimately the people who win are you the consumer you get better products your products solve real-life problems and we we all move on all too often people think in terms of well it's win lose so either Charles wins and vittala pleases or Charles losses and Vitalik wins but there's no notion of win-win in their mind where we all can win and the reality is that if Cardno ships the things we want to ship and I feel it's inevitable it will happen then the entire industry will be victorious as a consequence I personally believe because we have the most professional team the best community and frankly we're getting better every day at what we do and funding is not an issue that we will eventually win the long race and cart Donna will become as big as Bitcoin in terms of user impact and corporate impact and adoption so we'll have millions of users the other thing is that we're the only project in the space that seems to actually understand how to create channels to move millions of people into the crypto space the deal were negotiating Ethiopia should that conclude that's six million people the deals we do in Mongolia that's three million people potentially you know there's there's millions and these are one deal and we can do dozens of them once we have that ball rolling so it's very easy for me to bring 50 or 100 or 200 million users into the cryptocurrency space and it's not 2009 where their only option was Bitcoin they're going to go and look at Cardinal that's just where we're headed and whether iOS is successful or ripples successful or any of these guys are successful that has no bearing on our ability to bring these people into the space they're just coming and when they come it's going to be great for us can you please discuss solo staking how do you do it how much required a solo stake so you know you can register a stake pool and delegate to your stake pool now if you have to be above a certain threshold for that to make economic sense versus another state pool but the point is that anybody can solo stake you can always register your own stake pool and that's done on the blockchain and I don't believe there's a minimum amount or there is it's like super super small because it's a transaction fee that's just a parameter that set in the system and you're always in control of that so if you want to have a private pooling stake that's your decision and no one can stop you and basically that's the way you'd go so so anyway that's that's how Sol is thinking works and you know extension of that is if you put a coalition of people together and you form your own you know state pool service you can probably make some more money so but you're providing a service to the system and then eventually when we put layer 2 protocols like interoperability bridges or computation as a service lightening notes these types of things then you know you start looking at it as kind of a infrastructure as a service system as opposed to a staking as a service system so it what nice part about stake pools is it kind of creates heterogeneity or system you say there's these group of people around who are paid to be useful for your applications and for the citizen and the more of them the more secure those services happen to be and also the better market forces that those services have so basically what Cardno does is it creates that class of people and then those those people double that people drive it and at some point they need gas stations along the way to refuel but when you open up the gas station you're not just a single product entity you start saying well I'm gonna sell the Doritos and sell cigarettes and condoms and aspirin and these things because I can make money because people sometimes well they're feeling their car going buy something that they need well that's the exact same thing was a stick pool you know the existence of Cardinal creates these roads and then you need consensus nodes to run the system the the natural configuration is towards some degree of Federation but then those operators will recognize they have a business because they have people offering additional services system and then it just becomes a self-sustaining economy okay what US universities are currently collaborating with I which can't Colonel project well we tend to work with individual professors at US institutions we don't actually have us research lab at the moment we explored it we looked at Cornell they never got back to us this was years and years ago before the end of our relationship so they went on their own direction and they're actually research competitor of ours now that's okay that's the way the world works right then we looked at University Illinois we actually had discussions with the University of Illinois urbana-champaign about setting up a lab and we went about different ideas but so far it's been a more economically viable for us just to subsidize particular or co-author papers with particular professors at that institutions so we work with promote Vaswani and we finance dandelion and dandelion plus plus and he's given us another proposal we're right now reviewing it for some Network research we also co-authored some papers with Andrew Miller out of that University and then of course there's various other US institutions from time to time like we work with Alex Russell on up University of Connecticut and actually is one of the co-authors of the or Bohr's line and he's done great work with a bullosa that were real proud of that effort we also did some work with some subsidies with hunch hang out of Virginia Commonwealth University but most of our academic core is actually European and mostly within the UK and then our second major hub is in Switzerland followed closely by Greece and University of Athens you know there's no reason why you couldn't collaborate with us institutions and there's certainly a lot of really interesting ones like Stanford for example has a good lab and banane is a legend and also University of Maryland has John Katz and we know him we're friends with him he spoke at our conference but for some reason it's just been a lot easier with us to work within the European academic circles and to be frank the academic quality of both of them is equivalent there really isn't a substantial difference it is a lot nicer going to European conferences the wine is better the cheese is better I just find it a little easier to actually negotiate work with the European institutions that I find work with American institutions especially with the overhead we talked to certain Ivy League schools about setting up a lab and they were as overhead numbers at 60% the case of Edinburgh I think it was less than 20% and plus the Scottish government came in on funding so identical quality and I'd argue maybe Edinburgh even better yet one third of the overhead cost you know overhead is basically saying for every dollar you know certain amount goes to the University for other things like the Gender Studies Program or whatever and that's just wasted lost money so you have to over fund something to get your amount so when you're told that for every dollar comes in sixty cents is going to go for stuff you didn't pay for that's that's a hard pill to swallow so it kind of left a bad taste in our mouths were working within those circles but certain other US institutions have been very open and actually willing to make that over it quite small and at some point we will do something we often joke around the office about setting up a lab at University of Hawaii you know to do our really hardcore research you know we can we have to go out there for a research side four to three weeks that's that's when you know we've lost our passion know I'm deaf why would someone pick a toe over etherium in terms of technology which benefits provide ADA you know the reality is that we have a better smart contract model by far first because it it understands intrinsically the difference between on chain and off chain and it doesn't kind of wire the off chain on as an afterthought to be fair to aetherium this was not something that was super thought out before theorem launch but it became evident that you needed to have an off chain story so you had all these people say we're gonna go replace you know the you know the uber or Airbnb they say okay okay so they said well what about all those pictures you take for your Airbnb places that's that's terabytes and eventually you know petabytes it eventually exabytes of data that people are going to be for videos and pictures these things when you start looking millions into tens of millions of homes and it's dynamic people are updating them all the time I say oh okay so every time you want to register a property if that's been $5000 to permanently store all your information on the blockchain oh no no no we'll just or a hash of it okay if you do well then somebody has to have the original data to pull from so where is it it's in a server and the servers outside of your system right so somehow you have to wire on that server and make it interact with the on chain code so that when the user fires up their dab they're getting both the unchained code and the off chain code and they're running both of it and they're interacting with each other in some way so you have a cohesive user experience because in the end of the day you're competing with Airbnb so you know you want it to be like that you want to have like a website you want to be able to navigate you wanted to come you quickly you want to be able to see reviews all these things you couldn't care less that it's decentralized you just you want this and you want it to work the people care about it being decentralized they're usually the people who are renting because some cases they get shut out of markets do the regulation but for example the hotel lobbies will come together and see all there's too many RVs in our jurisdiction cases uber the taxi lobbies will come together and say all these guys need medallions or it's theirs to the ubers and there's somehow hurting the street god god forbid that people are allowed to drive their friends around so so they get that stuff bad and then you create these decentralized applications kind of backdoors into the system they allow you to circumvent those evil regulators so anyway the problem is that you need this off chain solution in the middie you have off chain solution someone's running that code you require additional infrastructure and if your system is not aware of that off chain code then you have to monkey patch it in and it becomes a debugging nightmare in practice because you know you you every time you want to debug something you have to interface with a test net and then you have to build all this infrastructure for it and once you've built it it's not reusable and then Bob over here when he does his app has to go through that entire nightmare again so you see things like web 3 and and open zeppelin you know there's frameworks the consensus has come up with that have tried to make that easier experience and they've done a somewhat decent job of it but it would be really nice if your entire programming language was built from the ground up to have a very nice story about what runs on blockchain what runs off blockchain and you have a single source for all of that single unified development experience for all of that and then for the financial transactions to have a domain-specific language that makes it super super easy to model that so that where you have the most likely part to screw up you have the simplest code so you can read it many many times and verify that things are right you can use very sophisticated testing techniques because it's Turing and complete at the financial transaction level so when you look at that whole stack its batteries included so to me it makes a lot more sense for the types of applications that we've seen in theory 'm to try and restrict them on a little bit - to a beautiful batteries included experience and we have some evidence of that for example the success of Ruby on Rails you know that Ruby wasn't trying to be everything everyone that was what Java was trying to do they were just saying we're gonna be very opinionated here's the experience you're going to have take it or leave it and it exploded it was very successful and it was a great model and that a lot of people emulated that model for their particular growth curve meteor as an example of that was JavaScript and so forth so it's not the end-all be-all and it's not going to be everything to everyone but you know if your goal is to get to a hundred good depths or 200 good depths that really showcase the power of the system and are useful and have a great user experience start there and then innovations in computer science and gradual iterations the system will allow you to open the system up and be interoperable with everybody else and that's why we were exploring things like hey and yella and the KPM and that's why fatalis looking at things like webassembly and so forth and those will come but let's get to 100 good debts that are really really great and what I want is wonderfully trained engineers you have a lot of experience they know what they're doing because here's the thing if they screw up they usually don't get blamed I get blamed look at the Dow hack Vitalik got blamed for that wasn't his fault you know there was no systematic broken flaw on aetherium that that had a backdoor that Dow hackers rarely use it was just badly written code because the Slovak guys didn't know what the hell they were doing and their mistake permanently tarnished the reputation of etherium so I would much rather have a framework that give us a high probability that whatever we end up implementing whatever ended people into building there's a very low chance that those things are gonna have systemic flaws in them that are very serious on the scale ernie dow had so those hundred good gaps that we create great user experience they're very sandbox ii and got people like them and they don't have flaws then you get the brand the reputation and we can build from that and it's very easy to get them from a hundred to a thousand to ten thousand to two hundred thousand and so forth and what's really exciting is also an interaction between permission systems and permissionless systems so for example the ethiopia point project or the air quality pilot sort of things like that that we're thinking doing these will likely have a cardinal component in addition to an attala component and there'll be a seamless movement of information state and perhaps value between these types of Ledger's and if that's the case then it gives us a really nice blueprint for all builders to do the exact same thing on their side and then over time more sophisticated protocols will be put in like our side-chains protocols and also our npc protocols which will allow additional features above and beyond what aetherium provides furthermore we have a better infrastructure idea you know they say for example workhorse Chronos and those will allow our our own timekeeping service so we can throw out NTP and also our own random beacon service and then when you start thinking about that you can start adding more decentralized infrastructure and that just becomes pluggable for the DAP developer portal for the the sidechain to use as they're building their experiences and they don't have to reinvent the wheel every time as they're currently doing within Syria in terms of real estate we did talk to step group and their tokenizing all kinds of things in Mongolia so they're working with trust chain over in Korea so there's a joint venture of two companies step group in Mongolia and trust chain in Korea and in that particular case it's a really interesting play and we've learned a lot about what they want to do and I would really love to see them bring that to Cardinal so there weren't discussions but nothing to to mention they're the Pink Floyd poster is in the basement and no I'm not fake Steve Jobs I'm Charles Hassan and I guarantee as Steve Jobs would want to be me I have a much better life Charles do you do some sports give the brain some rest sometimes you know when I was younger I did a Taekwondo and I also ride horses and I used to do jogging and mountaineering and all these things I've gotten fat and old and that's part of the reason why I want to stop traveling as much I also used to play the piano I played for a long time my hope is to get back into it so it gives me something else to do and just instead of just sitting out and stressing out about things I've got a Yamaha clever Nova CVP 709 which is like the best keyboard you can buy and it's got a grand piano action and it sounds exactly like a boson door for grand nine-foot grand so very excited about playing and I think it's going to be a lot of fun is riding horses exercise absolutely absolutely you have to keep your posture while riding it's it's a lot of work and you talk to anyone who rides horses professionally and just just look at them you'll never see a fat cap point or a fat dressage jumper Charles have you bought any Lamborghinis yet you know this isn't if you say questions so do you guys know the origin of Lamborghini Lamborghini actually used to make tractors and farm equipment it was an Italian guy and he was a big fan of Ferraris and he didn't like Ferrari very much and so you know he sent him a letter and said hey you know I love the idea but you really need to improve your cars and here's a bunch of suggestions and Ferrari sent back what basically Italian for go yourself it was like fat from culo or something and it's a Lamborghini got so upset by the response that he decided to stop making tractors or at least put that as a side business and start making exotic cars himself so it's just a standard Italian supercar story but you can still find on market Lamborghini tractors and one of these days I might actually get one guy got a John Deere outside and it'll be really funny too to say hey guys I finally got a Lambo and you'd be like wait a minute [Music] [Music] it's not a Lamborghini Charles have you tried you just say a lot of my employees love it you just say when they're there working real hard at that and they're pretty crazy the thing is there's this road you go down with jiu-jitsu and you start listening Jill Rogan and chacoly Lincoln even Sam Harris is doing it now and you know what you're just suit guy you're just like there's no going back and you're stuck in that you're stuck in that that that realm and I think for the sake of our ecosystem it's probably better for me to stay on sheet it's you for the time being but my director of engineering does it and there's a lot of other people who do it as well and you guys totally Google Lamborghini tractor you'll see what I'm saying the pretty sexy tractors yes I do hold Bitcoin Aikido does work when will be futile eyes Cardinal I'd love to see the beef chain guys move over to us they'd be great launch partner Tyler's wonderful guys got a ten thousand acre ranch out in Sundance he says proper cowboy he's real thin tall as hell got this big-ass hat we'll probably go up and see him this week it's an easy Drive out there we'll also talk about to the University of Wyoming guys while we're there and basically beef supply chains are super useful not just for Wyoming but they're actually useful for Mongolia and for Ethiopia and other places because they can't sell their beef basically have to prove certain things about the quality of your beef about your use of antibiotics these these types of things before you have access to US markets are their market places so it's a really expensive some cases more expensive than the value of the beef itself given the infrastructure they have so if we have a great launch and a system that you know would let you prove these things out it would be super desirable to Mongolia and to Ethiopia and also save a lot of lives because they have a lot of adulteration problems and expired me all these open-air butchers you know there's five animals in Mongolia cost you over 80% of their agricultural business there's camels sheep goats horses in also your camel sheep goes horses and and beef and I sort of just talking about to see get tired I they call that top enclosure mall with and it's basically uh and anyway Kashmir their biggest industry by far if you ever drive through the countryside you'll just see huge mountains of unprocessed Kashmir and they sent it to China through the Gobi group and they and they harvest it and refine it and then they go ahead and sell it to the United States or Italy or other places for final processing and they sell it for pennies on the dollar to the process their customs China and if they could just do that locally be really profitable it's the same for the beef you know they have access to Russian Chinese markets and a little bit but they really don't sell it for much and there's mostly just an internal consumption okay what do you got here Dave climate is not Satoshi nor is Craig right some point I'll get sued yeah you've gotten a conference so I am going to Uganda in July the president's gonna be there royal family will probably be hanging around a lot of people will be there so it'll be a fun experience and we'll enjoy it I got into the stuff with the hippos and then see some of the gorillas so that'll be fun too and you know it's a good market place we're probably gonna do a course there it's a lot smaller than Ethiopia and that's nice cuz Ethiopia is just so big and it's really really hard to do business and navigate those markets it's just whenever you deal with 106 million people 15 million smallholder farmers lots of diaspora a little bit of political uncertainty and you know a huge amount of direct foreign investment it's a somewhat fragmented business environment and then you have this kind of blending of the old new we're seeing Uganda things are a bit more politically stable in the respect that you can get a certainty if you deal with the right actors it's not necessarily the best environment to operate in but it is an open environment and they will be going through a transition at some point as well a lot of these Central African countries so it'll be fun to go there and spend some time and kind of get to know the people I've never been I've been to Rwanda but my director of operations is African operations has been to Uganda no hadera hash graf is not a threat data my opinion is that anything that is patented is not a cryptocurrency and it's not a threat to cryptocurrencies by definition you are not a cryptocurrency if somebody owns the intellectual property behind it and has the ability to prevent someone else from using it because by definition you're centralized so you're a digital token you may have a lot of memory you may have value it may be an interesting system but it is not a cryptocurrency if somebody controls that one person or company no idea what Definity is doing they tried to poach a few of our people unsuccessfully and I guess they're writing some Haskell code be nice to co-author some papers with a few of their researchers they have some good people there had Dominic's a smart guy but they don't talk to us the I used to talk to him all the time and then he got famous and rich I guess he liked the tan Jim card I'm glad you do and it's just gonna keep getting better they got us some good funding I'd love to have some steak notes in chili it actually Neko the CTO of our NGO is from Chile and I keep getting invited to go down to Santiago and they invite me during Frontier Days and I'm like guys move it one week I'll come and they'll never do it so I'll see if I'm come down to Chile this year but a wonderful country love the countryside the vineyards they're beautiful it's a lot of fun just to hang out and relax but we have some strong roots there RI which K is more on the Argentine side we have a big office in Buda Saudis and that's where almost all of our scala development along with poland has done and those two countries [Music] hardware we engineer from Israel I would like to know how I can help the Edit team I will be in Israel soon I will be in Tel Aviv I think the third week of June I'll announce the dates ahead of time because we'll do some sort of a meetup group and community event and I'd love to see you in person so if you happen to be in Tel Aviv just come on up and let's a let's chat we're always looking for good hat on and I love Israel it'd be a great country to spend some time in well et si ne th be supported by Daedalus eventually Daedalus is planned to be in that platform so it's supposed to be Universal wallet and it's supposed to be just one click install for a lot of things so at some point I'd like to be able to just say here's an ethereal click here's an et si wallet click as for native support within Cardinal wallet itself that's not on the mission critical path this year we just need while it features like multi-sig hardware wallet support light wallet bootstrapping CSV export there's like dozens and dozens a features that need to come and they've been stalled up by the complete rewrite at the back end but once all that's all done I'll be very easy first to roll out features like your ROI does very quickly and you know my goal this year is just to bridge that Delta and exit the year with the best wall in the world then it'll be pretty straightforward for us to support new currencies we've already abstracted these EXO layered system to a point where it's now Universal wallet you just reaper ammeter eyes it and the wallet back-end could theoretically be used as a Bitcoin wallet or - wallet and we can eventually do the same thing on the accounts based side and that we can do that for theory um and so forth so it's not inconceivable that we could offer support for lots of assets we're quickly that yeah it's a business decision and Nostradamus you and the chat man saw you a little earlier you know you always give me a question I love answering these questions I only got time for one more ah you're there got any questions for me more than 50 countries visited and hundreds of interviews made what question was never asked and you dreamed to be asked interesting question you know one of the places I've always wanted to go and I've never had a chance to go there was a rock because I'm a big fan of Mesopotamian history but I actually have Konya form tablets here now so I'll show you some of them you know and this one's really cool this is actually a calculation tablet so basically it's used to do math there you go and anyway I would always wanted to go to Babylon and actually see the Tigris Euphrates River and it's damn unfortunate this it's just such a politically volatile area come on camera focus on there we go camera got stuck in a bad focus and you know I I would have loved to have been asked you know questions related to kind of the drift of ideas you know this my pigs about the ancient world you know they would speak Aramaic or hidden or you know some language like Sumerian and these were live with Franca's and for hundreds of years the intense trading networks political intrigue you're watching Game of Thrones it was like that that's dragons and zombies and these things you know but it was like that there was intrigued there's poisoning there was religions and all kinds of bizarre things going on and if you lived in those time periods you know we took you and teleported you there after 10 or 20 years in you Makela made you get involved in it and it would be as if you're living today if you took someone born in that time period and you brought brought him here did the modern times they would grow up me like just you and me so yeah you know one of the things is we don't seem to do is we don't seem to reflect enough as a society we don't seem to think enough about where did we come from and the things that we got inspiration from like the biblical story of the flood this is not something that was invented in the Christian Bible it came from Mesopotamia and in and it's the same with hundreds of tales and stories and political ideas and intrigue babylonians even had a very sophisticated math system they used the base 60 numbering system instead of a base 10 system and led to some very interesting calculations that were pretty good for geometry but not so good for arithmetic so the question I always wanted to be asked was you know more of a question of if we had to look to 3,000 years in the future and we look back at where we're at today would it be like what we do when we look back 4,000 or 5,000 years to the Babylonians or the Sumerians or you know to some ancient culture long removed or would we be somehow distinctly different like we started a thread that they continued or what would our culture look at just as alien and I guess the meaning behind that question is are we on the right path are we on the right thread you know or is this just yet another a series of social experiments that were conducted now the problem is with the way the world works right now we're not on a sustainable Bend and this is a this is a little disquieting we what we're doing it will eventually burn itself out from an environmental perspective we're overpopulated we produce an enormous amount of waste where most of our energy comes from non-renewable sources so this even if it lasts a thousand years it's the last 10,000 and at some point we're going to burn it all out so the great challenge is can we have a social innovation where we reach a steady state where we're able to sustain what we have and then thrive from what we have and not destroy the entire planet and the other great challenge is can we get to a point where things become cumulative instead of cyclic where we have a rise a high peak and then a fall the Dark Age you know they always blame to see people for that and the ancient times and you know the barbarians for that the fall of the Roman Empire but you know can we get to a point where now we have some certainty that tomorrow will always be a little better than the day before I think that's the great challenge and I think it's something that people don't think too much about most of the questions I get stem around will I get rich or stem around how do I live a good life and be happy where they stem around today how do I learn this particular skill or how to code or to do this or stem around some piece of life advice but I get in very few questions about the meta or the extract or the one this bit of all mean and where we're going or an attempt to relate what has come long before thousands of years before to where we're at today and trying to understand a project where will we go into the future and this is just such rare conversations that I treasure them like great gifts and they're pretty magical and they're held well and every now and then you read a great book like homo sapiens or Homo deists and it gives you kind of an a license to go explore and talk about these things the future is going to be very complicated we're stepping into a world where people aren't going to lead things anymore the smartest among us won't even be human where we're going to have neural lace in our brain and BCI will be normal we're stepping into a world where our species will have to deal with the consequences of instantaneous value and information and into a world where your reputation can be built or destroyed in a matter of seconds and into a world where no matter how brilliant the individual effort is the collective effort will overcome it rapidly for example collectively the fans of Game of Thrones probably could write a significantly better season 7 & 8 then anything that george RR martin or dan and David could come up with and so we're moving towards that world and we're not really sure how to live in a world like that and will that world existence and validate all the things what we have to to there there wasn't a bridge with the Babylonians and there wasn't a bridge with the Romans we had to start over and do something new but there may be one for us who knows I wish I was asked that question the fun question to talk about usually just when well anyway you've been great it's a short AMA I've got a meeting in seven minutes so I got to go bye everybody
