[Music] hey everybody Charles Hoskinson here live from warm sunny Colorado we have pretty good weather everything looks pretty green I was driving around my land I put a put a video up on Twitter about it you know being Twitter of course half the people come and he'd have to be shitty but that's how social media works and I'm starting to like it actually I get used to it anyway yes since I'm home and feeling better I figure I start having more regular communication there's also some news items and things like that coming down the pipe so anyway we just released a steak pull off your questionnaire I let me bring it up real quickly so you'll notice it's got a few different sections from general information to information about yourself server infrastructure if you have a pre-existing business if you're staking any other cryptocurrency are you running a mining pool or any of these things and the purpose of this is basically just to get a pretty good understanding of who our audience happens to be so when we launch the test net we'd like the population to test net with a group of people that really get crypto currencies and they really get how to push things around and play around with a command-line and understand how to change firewall configurations and all these types of things instead of just a general public because the point of this test net is to verify the things that we've constructed are working the way that we intended them to work so the point of the question here is to just get us an understanding of where the audience is it's also going to help us create content so if the vast majority of people for example responding have used all the tools like Nix and git and other things that we use then we probably won't make video content but if we notice that there are certain deficiencies like how to report an issue on github for example or how to use Nick sauce or these things then what we'll do is coordinate with our partners and make some video content on YouTube specifically for these things so if you're interested I tweeted the link the link will also be in this video and if you're in the telegram channel that I mentioned my last AMA these things will will basically be sources for you to fill out that form let us know who you are we'll take a subset of the people and bring them to some dedicated channel talk with them so we're still on schedule looks like for the the June launch of the self note and we're right now building a Yambol generator I and basically you can launch your own test net in a box on your PC and you can mine with it and do these things on your your own version of card on oh and this is a great way of getting understanding of different configurations and basically how these things work on different operating systems different hardware profiles which is really the first step when you're launching a test net and it's really nice to get that feedback first it also creates a nice communication pipeline for reporting issues and other concerns and it kind of allows us to make sure that that's all smooth the next step is the the network version where everybody connects to the same test net and then that's going to look a lot more like what the main heads gonna look like and then for you run that for a little bit we'll add the incentives layer on it and we parameterize incentives accordingly and that at some point it'll get mature enough that we can flip a switch and it'll get to the maintenance side of things so we're we're moving along things are looking good guys that really really excited for it I know was not bullied in school at all life is great for me alright that was a response to a comment live chat so without further ado let's get to the AMA it's big bull day so you know what that means--it's means tomorrow's gonna be a fair day it's always like that in crypto but as long as it's doing this people seem to be happy sometimes they're not alright well hey Rick you're in the chat why don't you give me the the first question do you have somebody Pedro cooperation between polymath and Cardinal polymesh one is expect to be ready which you perspective about security tokens so you know one of the things that you do when you're an advisor is you advise but as an advisor you're not a decision-maker you're just providing advice for example if you retain a lawyer you say what should I do about this deal the lawyer can tell you will appear for the pros and the cons and here's what I would recommend you do but the other day it's always your responsibility so with polymath my relationship is strictly to provide advice on how to build a blockchain who to hire the types of things that they would need to do to migrate from one system to another system things about the token ah mix things about how to be best for the stakeholders in their ecosystem and and of course I'm gonna say things like the things that I build are probably better than the things that people build other people build on the market if I honestly legitimately believe that and of course I do or else why would I have built them so yeah I'll make my best effort to recommend the use of Io educate technology and products like hardware and when that makes sense but in the end of the day I have a fiduciary responsibility as a consultant to provide the best advice that I can give and in some cases that would mean that because certain things are further along or the roadmap is in a particular direction it actually makes more sense to use something else so for example if they like to stay on a layer 2 solution given that they've written so much solidity code and does make a lot of sense for them to stay on aetherium until Cardinal can either support that or they're willing to do a port and then it's a broader question of well does it make sense the port to another layer to you solution or does it make sense to deploy your own system so these are the kinds of conversations we can have and it's ultimately a strategic decision of the of the project we're at benefits card on o as it gives our organization a snapshot into what is the state-of-the-art in security to open world what where are the regulations at what is the level of maturity in the environment ecosystem what is the exchange what the infrastructure looked like and that's invaluable knowledge as we begin exploring security tokens on the card on outside especially in the developing world or there's a ton of assets that are right now illiquid people want to create liquidity for them so regardless if there's a direct relationship between polymath and Cardinal or not however that ends up there's going to be a kind of an indirect tangential synergistic value that we gain from this knowledge that we can then use for product development and for product strategy that's why it's good to talk to people okay all right let me go through the list is there any support initiative for communities in Eastern Europe you know we have a strong presence in Ukraine actually rollin Roman only Nika and his guys based in Kharkov and we also have some people that we talked to pretty regularly yeah Kiev and I sometimes travel to Ukraine we also a lot of friends in Bulgaria and Romania and Hungary in other places and I'm actually traveling to Georgia the country next month I'll be meeting with the Prime Minister and litany of Ministers going to wine country and having a lot of conversations and we may have some good card on news coming out of that so we'll we'll see but in general that's actually a great area because there's just so many strong developers it was very strong STEM education there's a lot of outsourced developers there who really do like writing applications and because the math education is so strong in Eastern Europe when you talk about functional programming they have a predisposed kind of admiration for a Haskell and Lisp and Oh camel and other such things and generally they go to Java and C++ and Python and JavaScript out of necessity where that's where the jobs are for outsourced development work whereas they'd actually much prefer to be or any things in Haskell or Scala or something like that in fact that some of the best Scala developers we work with actually come from Poland there's a firm called Scala C so when we're talking about popularizing the push for Plutus and Marlowe those are great markets and we're definitely gonna do an explorer okay what else we got here Georgia the country not the girl and the devil didn't go down to it scared by Facebook coin you know this interesting thing this this global coin Facebook clean guys you know I an asset-backed coin is is nothing really scary for the cryptocurrency world or anything it's actually a value add to our entire ecosystem you know at the end of the day there's going to be a large ecosystem of tokens and crypto currencies if anything because people just like them existing just like there's sports teams and just like there's all kinds of things that we prop up they don't actually need be compelling market reason for things to exist we may just like trading them we just might like the game of winners and losers it's entertainment for some people and that alone is worth billions of dollars but then we talk about real life utilities being a store value these other things you cannot make the argument that somehow Facebook taking something to the US dollar and then bundling that into the the facebook Messenger is somehow someway going to destroy the entire cryptocurrencies face it's missing the entire point guys if there is a centralized issuer and a centralized actor controlling something that is not a crypto currency that is not what we're about the whole reason Bitcoin exists is to get away from these types of things the entire reason the cryptocurrency space exists is to get away from these types of things now if I was JP Morgan or Wells Fargo or per Bank of America I'd be scared shitless about this because functionally what it is is a better way to do banking in a regulated environment and it is something that wouldn't if it takes off could kill the entire order of correspondent Bank relationships so that's certainly a scary thought for the legacy world in the incumbents and Facebook has a chance of eating their lunch but by no means is it going to harm or damage to cryptocurrencies base in fact if it's designed correctly it could replace the tethers of the world with something a bit more stable and really help decentralized exchanges and really help the people who don't want to touch the fiat space but still want to digitize so I don't view them as a threat or a competitor and I think people who do just don't understand what cryptocurrencies are all about are in history is all about and that's okay there were people who didn't understand what the internet was about like Paul Krugman who also doesn't understand what cryptocurrencies are about and what he famous pody said it's the empanada like a impact of the internet will be equivalent to or less than the fax machine so maybe if you disagree with Paul you can send him a fax it probably still has one and you know if you disagree with me well then send me some Facebook coin yes we are released test net in June for the self node General Zod how long after the final release of Shelly do you see smart contracts being implemented used so now we're actually starting to do actually have people write smart contracts give us feedback about smart contracts and so part of the strategy is just hackathon hackathon hackathon in introducing to the functional programming world you know the reality is that the imperative world has been captured by etherium but the functional world's completely up for grabs and it's a big world there are hundreds of thousands of developers that are familiar with functional programming tools techniques and that you seem at conferences like strange loop and ICF P and lambda Jam and all these things all around effect if you doubt me just go to meetup.com and do searches for Scala Haskell closure Oh camel and just look at the top meetup groups and how many members they have you can just do a count and you start realizing that there's a very large community here and by and large they're just sitting on the sidelines so the most experienced deepest computer science knowledge generally the best engineers in the entire space carve all of programming are just sitting on the sidelines can't use their knowledge and their tools and their techniques in the cryptocurrency space they're forced to use things that look like JavaScript but worse so I don't think it's a really good idea to say oh let's just keep them on the sidelines and force them to continue going down that road for the sake of interoperability it's a good idea to just micro target them go after them capture them get five hundred to a thousand really good people and have them go do stuff and build stuff that really shows the power of the platform and then once you have that [ __ ] then people start getting an idea what is a system all about and then you add interoperability then you start crying you see at the end of the day Vitalik and others like gab would but Vitalik in particular has had been brutally criticized by the mistakes of other people so you look at the dow hack for example there's nothing technically wrong with EVM or solidity that actually results that in the dow hack the problem is that the language was designed in such a permissive way that it was easy for people who didn't know what they were doing to make mistakes and when those people make mistakes people didn't just blame those people well the dow hack occurred people didn't just say oh well it's the it's the dow hacker and thus Lockette coders they said no it's etherium that's at fault it's vitalik because it's fault I got a very bad brand reputation from that that to this day still hurts them and it makes people question about security so it's super important that when you first launch something and you bring it out into the mainstream that you make sure that you bring your 18 your a game or else people's perceptions will set and as a consequence the some people may screw up and drag the entire brand into the dark pits so our view has always been start small start methodical and get some great ideas out there get some great apps out there and then get some momentum from that and then open up interoperability and then the floodgates open the Brad's already set the marketing's already said the community has already said there's going to be a core group of very experienced people that can answer questions and really get the underlying technology and really fanatically believe in the underlying technology so when those newer people come in they're not left to their own devices they have mentors there's people to answer questions on Stack Exchange there are already libraries that are constructed lots of good ideas that are sitting there so that's that's a different growth model but I think there's a population to draw from there's a demand for this and the excitement we get when we talk about these things at functional programming conferences and when we do the hackathons it's a good indicator that we're going to get that core group of elite people to get things going yeah pollute is premature at this point you know things are looking really nice where we're at the point where we're doing fine details and they're evolving quickly fact right now today you can actually use Plutus with Politis playground you can take courses on Plutus on udemy and hackathon will eventually be coming near you yeah that's a good point wasn't doubt Karina audited by the best solidity developers at that time and that is the fair criticism of aetherium as a platform if your best still can't deliver something great then there's fundamental issues with your design but you gotta understand so the solidity is divorced from all the tools techniques methodologies of let's say mature ecosystems like C or something because it's new whereas pluteus is not you can reuse thirty years of great knowledge tooling techniques from the haskell world with Plutus development so you can get much higher reliability code we don't have to go and reinvent the wheel we don't have to go and build 30 years worth of tools James good to see that you're in the chat and Lawrence was excellent multa that's good to hear yeah he had a lot of friend and Lara was there too and hey Gabe alpha alpha alpha alpha yeah Gabe Abed runs one of the most interesting channels in the cryptocurrencies face the Gabby's the Alpha Channel and it's got all the cryptocurrencies CEOs and it I think he even has a token associated with it it's prequel channel it games one of the best entrepreneurs in the space a good friend who he started bit and to this day and I think he's the only one of us who actually managed to get a central bank to issue occurs okay let's see here hello from Japan I will be in Japan funny man I'll be in Japan June 8th to the 13th I believe flying to Tokyo so I'm speaking at a big conference it's not a cryptocurrency conference but it's going to be a lot of fun it says kind of like a digital world conference or something why Ichi who's from the Asahi invited me to speak so that's gonna be a fun event you might run into me I think I'm doing a meet-up groupers something like that too and Thank You Netherlands we have a great community out there okay Charles I'm new to this space but I want to learn ADA Charles what language you suggest I start working with well billion what's your computer science experienced as soon as you answer all I'll give you some advice okay what do we got here Rick it looks like we're gonna miss each other to what degree has Iowa Jay in the car down a foundation communicated with us financial regular tape regulatory committees where he's going to give us regulated engagements relocating his court business to Wyoming Michael you reality is Iran is an unregulated product although certain uses of Cardinal could become regulated or are regulated depending upon jurisdictions so I personally do talk to us regulators that I talked to some people from the CFTC for example when I was in New York and through the people I work with we have a considerable amount of organizational knowledge we've gained whether it be through the Berkman Kline Center at Harvard or FS vector or others about where did as US policy set for all of the regulatory agencies not just one particular one for example we think a lot about securities regulation but you also have to think about Finn's and you have to think about the IRS certainly CFTC and these other entities and and they're smaller or in some cases they have different mandates but those mandates may inadvertently trip up with the use of crypto currencies so generally speaking you know regulation comes into play when you're holding something on behalf of somebody else you're a middleman where the system doesn't operate without you being involved in that for example you're a transaction relay or something like that where there's no other way to do it without your presence when you're making promises and people are making financial commitments based upon those promises for Apple I say if you invest in my company I'll give you this return are these things and there's all kinds of different things like how we test and other such things that you can use to understand where you generally fall the problem is that the u.s. regulations very primitive and that it was the first and so it's it's got a lot of case law audits it's it's very trakone ian and byzantine and in serpentine and it's really difficult to understand where you find where you fit it would be much better if it was functional where you'd say here's a clear collection of tests you can easily apply them if then if you think you're in violation or you need to be regulated run the test it'll get you an answer and then you can go to the agent and say well I ran them and you know give me a clarity give me a new action letter or an exemption or something like that you'll be much easier if we had functional regulation and much easier if we had ability to directly communicate with regulator to get certainty with them the challenge is that when a regulator gives you certainty in some cases that becomes a precedent that gets set for other actors and as a consequence it makes them unless they're willing to move lockstep for an entire industry hesitant to make broad proclamations about whether something is a security or not a security or how something should be taxed because then it kind of removes their moral mandate to enforce in the future unless you're absolutely sure they want to go down that road whereas other regulators like Switzerland for example are perfectly comfortable in many cases with given case-by-case rulings and that's basically the standard for example with aetherium we actually got a tax ruling a tax ruling from the canton of Zook we just simply said hey this is what we're doing tell us how we're gonna be taxed and the Canton said this is the way it is we said great and it only took a few weeks and when they stamped it it was actually legally binding so they couldn't retro actively go back and say well that's not what we meant and cancel the whole thing out so we we definitely do talk to regulators not just within the United States carbonado is a global product and I which K is a global business we operate in almost 20 countries at this point and it's an ongoing conversation and dialogue and there's you know the other problem is politics change the 2020 election is going to have a huge impact on the regulatory direction that the United States goes into so far the Trump administration has been very laid back with regulation and in many cases anti-government with regulation so they put people into power who really just don't want to either make new rules they're getting rid of old rules or they're just delaying and waiting things out this is especially apparent with EPA but on the rent of financial regulatory so we've also seen the same thing I should the Democrats win in 2020 there's a very strong possibility they're going to put people in mostly from Wall Street they have a history of this who will probably be anti crypto in fact had Hillary Clinton one the people that she was thinking about putting into the Securities Exchange Commission and other regulatory bodies were not pro crypto they were quite the opposite so the very same people who say crypto is a scam crypto should be banned crypto is diminishing the power of the US government could inadvertently now be in charge of the agencies that regulate things and because there's no legislation that's explicitly regulates cryptocurrency and constrains these regulatory bodies should the leadership change these regulatory bodies may become very hostile to crypto it's almost too looking at the political spectrum drug policy for example when George Bush was president and to a certain extent under the Justice Department under the prior Attorney General there was a very strong anti-drug push within the United States a lot of people were thrown into jail at the same time there was a big push for medical marijuana in the decriminalization of marijuana so you started having this issue where the states were at direct conflict with the federal government and something very similar may end up happening over the next five years to ten years where the federal government becomes anti crypto but then the state governments are increasingly becoming Pro crypto state of Colorado's passed legislation in the state of Montana is looking at legislation in Wyoming has already passed a lot of legislation and if enough states pass legislation this will inevitably affect US federal policy but I'm not gonna lie it's it's certainly clear that bigger financial institutions are starting to understand that cryptocurrencies are going to have a significant impact on their existing business model and these large financial institutions will do what they always do try to buy politicians and try to buy regulation so that basically their competition gets regulated out of existence and they can maintain a state-sponsored monopoly it's another reason why cryptocurrencies exist and this is already a global market it's already huge and it's going to be very difficult for people even if they shut the US markets down to shut down the cryptocurrencies space we're already too the cat's already out of it back.i which K is a software company we build software we don't do Investment Banking we don't do private placements and sell lots of things and we don't do any of those things especially not within the United States you know and so unless the US government starts saying that software is not going to be regulated differently which is certainly a possibility but it would really have constitutional implications especially the First Amendment I don't think that regulation is very significant for us you know that said you know things change and elections happen laws get passed and every now and then constitutional crises occur and work our way through those where and when they make sense [Music] all right Billy Ferguson I have no computer language I'm just starting out I'm so so shocked you're answering me thank you sir all right well if you're starting from the very beginning what my recommendation would be to go to Coursera and they have a fundamentals of computing course series I think it's from Rice University or something like that it's maybe six or seven classes and it's taught in Python so I'd recommend looking at that and going through that entire course series of Harvard University on EDX also took their cs50 class which is their introduction to computer science class and that course is also free so those are two really really good resources and they'll take about six months to get through and at that point you'll know enough to be dangerous and you'll have a basic understanding of what is a programming language how to write code some understanding of algorithms and data structures and you'll be end up a really good position to then move on to the next stage of your pedagogy which is functional programming and probably the best way to enter that is through a book called the Haskell book I it's about a thousand pages long and it does a very comprehensive deep dive into Haskell the other option is to go through a more traditional pedagogy which is called sicp the structure interpretation of computer programs which is written in Lisp so both these routes are very good routes to the functional programming world and that'll take another six months takes about a year to learn enough or you can actually do some reasonable things it won't be a professional developer but you least understand enough to communicate with professional developers and be able to do some interesting things if you're interested in actually pursuing a degree in computer science you're based in the United States there's a really good online program that Regis hats which you probably get through quickly and get a bachelor's in computer science there's also the nano degree programs that Udacity has is it a patented no and that rooms the entire point hi Charles will sharding be applied in the Cardinal project yes there'll be some notion of it we call it or Boris Hydra and basically there's kind of two dimensions you can go one a Chardonnay or one one is applying layer two solutions these are bundling or batching or lightning style stuff Rock Cohen is their lightening product manager so he's exploring that direction we're looking at snarks and Starks and these are the things and that's mark offs choices job so that's what's happening layer two we're also looking at MPC for smart contracts and obviously the side-chains research line allows interoperability with other systems so you can push work to those systems and then on the layer one side Hydra is underway so we have a backlog of or more stuff to do we're rewriting all the or Boris papers for a journal submission that's nearly done we're also looking at some cleanup in particular we're looking at reducing the issues with dishonest spikes of dishonest majority and so there's some more theory that has to be done at the base level and the immediate next project is or course Hydra so that's a summer project and as we exit the summer it'll be done we'll be in a good position to begin implementation work and because we've rewritten all the code and you know we have new processes and everything we just immediately move the team that finishes Shelly on to that and they'll be able to launch that significantly faster than it took to get to get to Shelly it's nice having low technical debt you can just move so quickly [Music] what is the education path to learn how to run a node from scratch we're likely either gonna make some YouTube videos or we're gonna go ahead and do something involving a course like a you to be course at the very least there'll be a few YouTube videos the exact videos that we do you know is just dependent on the kinds of questions we keep getting over and over and over again with with the state pool task force and the community as a whole you know certain people probably shouldn't run full nodes at some point especially if you just don't have a stable computer or you know you like only may have a cell phone or laptop well you're not really set up for that and then furthermore maybe just don't have the patience or the technical skills so our hope is to produce some sort of filter where there's a course or a content if this makes sense to you you can do it if it doesn't make sense to you well you have to reassess whether you want to invest the time for this or not but it's not hard to make that content and it's something you can do pretty quickly what we did with the unit the enemy courses for pluteus and Marvel oh when will add your ex support arrived I asked my Director of Operations about this today and what we're basically doing is having a conversation with vacuum labs about it and we'll get back to you guys but I don't think it would be super hard since we already have the nano s support there's just a few little things that have to be done so it's gonna be one of those euro vacuum labs so emerge avec young labs deals but obviously considerably faster than it took to get legendre support so my hope is sometime next month but what we'll find out the other thing is that I'd really like to do multis thick with ledger devices for especially for people at large holdings so it'd be nice to have a cell phone app alleged annex and basically have a copay like multisig experience so we've been having some discussions around what it would take to get there and that's a launch requirement for shelley multi-sig is required for Shelley what are your thoughts on Casper labs you know I flat it's an interesting guy I was actually guy who hired flat when I was that aetherium and flat and I never agreed on anything he's kind of acidic you know he's always been flat to me we've run into each other throughout the years and if all my critics were like Vlad I'd be a lot happier and my life would be a lot better at least I'd be able to have a conversation with them and we'd be civil and of course we disagree but we know we're not disagreeable in the process Kasper labs is just a good reflection of what happens when you get an ecosystem that gets very large you start having people who have divergent paths and inevitably they start executing on those divergent paths it's a consequence of success you know if you have a Bitcoin here we'll eventually have a Bitcoin cash if you have an etherium you'll eventually have an etherium classic if something is going to come up and you know at some point we're gonna have a card on home cash or a card on classic because somebody's going to disagree with what the community wants to do and take it in that particular direction and that's okay it's a good thing it's a bad thing when you have an endless series of them and every time they happen they take if 50 percent of your population you have this exponential decrease and fragmentation that's what happened to the NXT community they just couldn't agree and they split all these tribes and it became many different projects like cryptic lists and waves and so forth which is really sad because NXT actually had some good ideas it doesn't matter what you say Vlad loves to disagree yeah there are some people like that you know and I wish him well I really do hope Casper labs should have something interesting cuz you know at anytime someone does something interesting we get to read it we get to look at it and we get to borrow from it if there's some guy dealer as long as they're following an open source needs those I generally speaking do not have issues with people that are open source and they allow us to use the things that they build because you know even if they have 10 bad ideas if they have one good idea it might end up being a good idea we could take put into our system and it helps all of you guys yeah obviously for a good one okay I see your website hosting hi from Portugal hello Portugal we have a lot of people from Brazil at i/o which case so we do speak Portuguese from time to time but Brazilian Portuguese is a little bit different it's a bit more flavorful but I always say obrigado all right I need a new shirt the one you have on will likely scare off a horse well this is a rancher shirt kids can have hi Charles is a true that Kurt Otto has a kill switch programmed into it whereas can you shoot it down in case of worldwide emergency no we do not have a kill switch there is one thing that I had put into Cardinal the I which K ADA is actually unspent able we put some stuff into to the protocol for that had we had full smart contract support we would have written a vesting smart contract but because we didn't we just made it unspent able which is actually why it's so incredibly ironic when I hear people run around say oh well Charles is flying all around the world selling his a to finance his lifestyle well we have sold any because we can't can't even move it from the wallet it's currently it so you know that is what it is right what solutions are coming for people to feel safer holding a DES that's a good question as with all things there are various levels so the very first thing that I would recommend doing is using it some form of a hardware wallet if you're really paranoid so let your nano ass and I think the oppressor support as well and others are coming on are very powerful their option you have is a paper wallet now in both cases the advantages that the keys are cold those private keys never get exposed to a device that's connected to the Internet it it's just a question of which one do you trust more with a paper wallet there's a generation process and there's a printing process now the generations in memory so if it's generated on a device that's not connected to the internet or it's a pretty safe device and the printer is not a public printer it's probably okay but be aware that the printer buffer actually can possess the the paper wallet blueprint the Reapers now which is why we segregated the keywords so that you have to write by hand a set set of those keywords I think it's 20 step but an 18 or printed and night or written by hand so just provide some degree of protection from that the case of the hardware wallet your trust the company that manufactured the hardware wallet not to have mistakes or issues so using a hardware wallet from a reputable vendor that has third-party auditing it's been on market for a while and a lot of people have put money into there by giving hackers and instead of to attack it is probably a good first step nothing is permanently secure there's all that kinds of things can happen you can lose the device the device can be destroyed the wallet can be burned which why it's probably good idea to have it back up so you know once we have multi-sig come then what you can do is double down on your security for example if you have a lot of ADA it's probably good to have a two of three multi-sig on a hardware wallet devices and then put one of those multi-sig devices in let's say a safety deposit box at your bank as a backup you keep one and maybe you get one to a friend who can keep it secure so even if your house gets broken into or you get compromised that person would not be able to spend and then furthermore you'd also have you know you're a multi stick in a safety deposit box so you can of course go there if you don't have a friend you trust open up two bank accounts in two separate organizations and you have two safety deposit boxes then put them there that's really secure and I've never heard of anybody who's ever done that having a problem the inconvenience is that you'd have to go and drive to the bank to spend your ADA but then again if you know you're not doing that frequently this is a cold store for long-term storage probably a good way of doing that and then of course you can learn how to write smart contracts and you can read all kinds of logic like you can make the tokens on spendable for a while [Music] a mantas Daedalus shaped cold storage wall it would be cool idea well on the Daedalus side we are going to upgrade Daedalus at some point Carlile wallet at some point to allow you to manage accounts but not have the private keys so basically the idea is you can connect the ledger device or you can connect a paper wallet and it will be able to observe the balance of those those mediums but you would not be able to actually spend from the Daedalus interface without actually connecting the device to the to the wall to the Daedalus wallet and then the other side of that is is having maybe trusted hardware support so we have examined it examined separating the crypto we call this in the rest client secure Enclave and then complying compiling the cryptic or to run in Intel SGX and we're also looking at a solution called Zim bit zy m bi T in both those cases your key management is now done in a trusted Hardware on clay one that comes pre built into the computer and the other one would get device connect to the computer and so then all your key management key signings capabilities would be physically separated into a different operating system almost like Samsung Knox is to Android on the device so the advantage there would be that even if your OS was compromised or you had malware or you know a remote user has somehow to had access and they can read and see things the physical separation of the hardware and the operating system would prevent that from reaching that Enclave and being able to steal your funds but it's important to point out that more often than not private key theft is actually one of the least effective ways of getting people's cryptocurrency usually what ends up happening is either there's a hacking we're basically people using some sort of that you need their back or something like that or hey say look a friend emails you and says hey hey and I'm stuck somewhere can you send me a Bitcoin because their account has been compromised and that usually is where people end up losing their monies they voluntarily actually give the funds to someone else so you're insulation against those types of social attacks is generally speaking if someone is asking you for help don't do it until you physically talk to them on the phone better yet over a VoIP connection then at the very least they might still be trying to defraud you because maybe they've been compromised but more often than not it will protect you from an account another thing is to follow like a 48 72 hour rule where you say okay I'll give it to you but I'll give it to you next week nothing is so urgent that people who need crypto now you know if you can meet people in person and you know assess them that's even better but that's just common sense right yeah Tron should have definitely used mantas but you know is what it is hi Charles you mentioned you have chickens on your aunts do you sell them and how many do you have no there are eight chickens so I have him for eggs I have eleven chickens I bought more than eleven but a few of them died because we raised them from chicks and that always happens no matter how careful you are chickens are pretty fragile when they're first born and we got two keys to guard the chickens and we're just about done with the chicken coop and very soon we'll have fresh eggs because I love omelets when Gulfstream g650 landings grip in your front yard here's what really rich people do if they go down that road you don't put a landing strip you put a helipad because you keep your plane ideally at a nice hangar at a nice Airport where it can be maintained and serviced and when you want to fly on your plane you have the helicopter pick you up from your place take you to the airport because helicopters go like 200 miles an hour even if you live in the mountains it doesn't take very long to get tiered yeah like 20 minutes or 30 minutes from the nearest airport so you know the only reason you'd have an airstrip on your land is if you know like a drug lord or you live on just an insanely remote area where even a helicopter would take awhile to get to another airstrip but I live in Colorado there's no area so remote I feel like you're not working every day I see you posting memes on Twitter instead of getting Shelly out you're always criticizing vitalik but petrology has a product out I feel you're a phony that talks question mark well are you questioning your own statement I mean come on Anthony you got it you got it tell me what how you really feel okay which should I be doing are you ready code so what code so we're repo British I meet you what should I be doing come on Anthony tell me how I should be meeting right in my company we have 200 people revenue we have revenue all around the world signing agreements with heads of state talking to people I guess you're the expert thank you keyboard warrior and it does bring up a broader point of people's perceptions of people in power and what they do you know my job is to be the guy who knows where to go and rally the people get them to go there it's not my job to clear the brush build the roads and get into the nuts and bolts of the mechanics you know if you if you get an engineer you put them into a position of power a lot of them failed in those positions of power because they don't know how to delegate and they don't know how to actually be a CEO they demote themselves to lead engineer or lead tech Nicolle architect and every time a problem happens instead of trusting somebody to solve that problem they do it themselves it's a really bad situation I see it over and over again an organization well then he you ask yourself well then how do you ever have a weekend or go to a conference and talk to your competitors and see where they're going if you don't have time for any of that because you're writing code no time for any of that because you're fixing the product when the product's broken I'm very glad I have David s there as a Senior Product Manager on cardano's because he shows up for all the meetings I used to have to go to and instead of having to go to six meetings or seven meetings a week now I go to one or two that means I save five hours every single week that I can now spend thinking about who should we partner with or who should we talk to what new products should my company build how do we make more revenue for the company so I keep the lights on put more money into R&D more money to hire better coders you know and so and as for Vitalik having a product yet he's started long before I did started in 2014 you know we do have a product she's called Byron it's been in market since September of 2017 what the [ __ ] have you been paying attention to there's multiple wallets many many papers test nets galore new one launching in June but what more do you want you know even if we had let's say Shelley in market then I'd be like well why is your market cap lower than etherium and then let's say we're eclipsed aetherium why is your market clamp lower than Bitcoin and let's say we closed Bitcoin then it's what's the next thing that's going to come and kill you aren't you worried about Facebook place you can never make these people happy because the end of the day they're either criticizing you because there's something else they like more than what you have in which case you're never gonna win they don't like you for some reason maybe they don't like the way I talk or the way I look or they think I'm a bad actor or they lost money because the market collapsed and in their view the product is not successful as they're making a fortune and driving a Lamborghini so it's just noise and it's it's noise as amplified by social media and it's noise that's amplified by confirmation bias you see the things you want to see you know if if you're you know you're my friend and supporter you think wow Charles is getting healthier he's driving ETV around his ranch he's relaxing this is great for the project means that he's going to have more energy and be more vibrant to come up with great ideas and if you don't like me you say wow Charles is squandering money he probably stole from old people in Japan look at this article that slander written by this one guy three years ago that's just filled with lies that I don't even bother to validate staying same piece of news but two completely different ways saying yeah it's the same with the meta master you know who I am tweet I've talked about that at nauseam you know and there are still people today mostly in the etherium ecosystem a few in the eos ecosystem but mostly etherium who basically used that as an indictment of character they say oh well this it must be how Charles acts everywhere so they wouldn't be surprised if somebody had a hidden camera and saw me at a hotel and I'm checking in if they tell me my room is not available yet that they would put money on the table that I would blow up and yell at the hotel clerk or if I'm at a restaurant and they forgot the the side of bacon that I'd blow up and yell at the waist wrists or something like that they would put money on the table ten times out of ten for it because of one tweet because they think that the tweet means that's Charles Hoskinson that's his character that's who he is there's no empathy there's no understanding they just collapsed the entire thing down you know um I I I work probably 80 to 100 hours a week and it's it's it's this intermittent intervals of work and that dinner is I get a message I have to take a call I'm sitting in Airport waiting for a flight you know there's something comes up I have to type an email almost miss boarding because I have to get it through there's hundreds of those situations there's also lots of downtime we're just waiting you know I can't do anything it's this point make the developers write code faster I can't do anything at this point to get something to release one day sooner I could I could go and try to write code myself even if I had the the inclination to do so it probably just slows things down just like hiring a new developer would slow things down you'd have the best developer in the world you put them on a new project it takes them a few months to integrate correctly and become productive and not slow people down so in some cases I'm waiting as much as everybody else is waiting and there's not much more I can do so I choose to spend my time thinking about things reading books doing other things because in the process of doing that it gives you creativity gives you the ability to imagine things differently it gives you the ability to relate with people that you couldn't relate with before and ultimately that's what makes great products one of the reasons Steve Jobs was so good at doing things on the Apple side is cuz he took a calligraphy class you know at university you know he did all kinds of strange things had all kinds of strange hobbies and that knowledge synergistically helped him think about products in a different way which ultimately made those products more successful so all great CEOs have to have a work-life balance and all great CEOs have to have a variety of different interests that inspire them to think differently about where products need to go and how to build products and you're going to be criticized relentlessly no matter what you do anytime you're doing anything that involves politics money anytime you're doing anything that involves any modicum of human opinion whether it be where to put the stop sign we're going to put the speed bump to all the way to how to lead a country you're going to be the subject to enormous amounts of criticism over over a long spectrum and people are just going to say things that are just blatantly false provably false all the time people keep saying we're selling our ADA anytime anybody can go to our blog and see the address where our ADA is sitting we can't even spend it it's not possible yet people say it over and over and over and over again and that's more of an indictment of themselves it's more of an indictment of how social media works is one of anodite 'men it just of how people think the day these people have no power these people are ultimately not going to influence whether we're successful or not they're just trolls and so when you start looking in that way life gets better I'm actually 31 not 33 aren't you afraid that these kinds of videos will Sunday be used against you Elin must doesn't do videos like these maybe he should he rents publicly traded companies so you know that does create some complications but at the end of the day the deep fake revolution is coming guys within the next 10 years a is going to advance the point where you can take a person a video of a person and base for that video and what that functionally means is that you can have things that look real that are completely made-up so you'll be able to take a video of Trump or Obama and have Obama say I hate Jews or Trump saying like kill all the kill all the minorities or something like that and it'll come out look exactly like him exactly as if he said it we're moving to a reality that's becoming almost post truth it's it's something we're not prepared for as a society because at the same time you have these hypersensitive people who somehow are so good at playing the social media game that anytime you say anything that offends someone you're now at risk of being pushed out of your job you're now at risk of being demonized or dog piled you know if people say stupid stuff all the time I I'm king of it you know I I saw that firsthand with the do you know I am tweet in Vietnam I was in Vietnam not feeling very good we had a product launching next week I was a little worried that we might not elf important that we can't talk to each other privately I I have on my rolodex most of the CEOs of the cryptocurrencies space I just didn't have the communication channel with meta mask bill I and yet figure since were from the same industry we should have that and being denied that pissed me off I wasn't feeling very good I say once any now it's jaded my character according to a huge group of people in the theorem ecosystem so yeah that does happen but then at the end of the day you have to ask yourself so what you know the Sun still gets up still get to wake up every day you know no one's gonna fire me I own my own company our ecosystems incredibly strong we're loved by many people people have kept to this with our logo on their bodies so yeah videos can certainly be used against you and deep fakes are gonna be a very very tough thing for society to live through and they're gonna be brutal as we move into a post truth economy but I think there's good this pendulum is gonna swing the other direction where outrage culture is gonna burn itself out because you know what if you're offended it's probably not my problem so suck it up buttercup you just got to deal with it you just got to accept it I I get horrible things said about me every day look at my life I love my life it's great and why can't you love yours why can't you have a good time you know and they said oh but that systemic society is holding me down I'll tell you one of the most poignant things I've ever seen in my entire life I went to Rwanda and I went to Kigali to the genocide museum there and it's it's not only just a museum it's a tomb the quarter-million people are buried there in 1994 one and a half million people were killed in about 100 days and probably the worst genocide that's ever happened because it was a decentralized genocide it wasn't just a small group of evil twisted people who were indoctrinated for 20 years in a special Club and then they became monsters and then they went and killed everybody no this was just neighbors killing neighbors they flipped they grabbed machetes they just started chopping people up they went next door killed the kids or killed the husband the person who worked at the front desk of the museum was Hutu and he killed the I think it was the wife of the janitor upstairs they worked together in the same building 20 years later they have lunch together sometimes they talked to each other sometimes think about that a society where half the society attacks the other half massacres children mothers husbands grandparents horrific things in the most inhuman way possible finds a way to forgive and move on and just say for the sake of our children and for the sake of the future of the country and for the sake of of just putting things back together and so we don't end up in 25 years of Perpetual Civil War and poverty and chaos we need to find a way then to get along with each other so when you have that as a real-life example of what human beings are capable of doing what what the hell well are your personal repentance is so bad and society treating is so badly that you should carry a permanent chip on your shoulder and be less cheery and less happy than that particular person who has every reason to be basically angry for the rest of time as children angry for the rest of time you know one of the super powers of the human race is the ability to forgive and forget and move on and it's something that I think we all need to really really grow up and reevaluate especially as we start moving into this post truth economy Charles house the Treasury system coming along very good we're starting to to really scale up the team there we're getting to a point where it's starting to leave the lab and then Chang has come up with some great ideas and so I don't want to distract the Gogan and the Shelli teams but it's the very next thing we're gonna start working on as Shelly starts drawing down some guys are going to go to Hydra and some guys are going to go to the Treasury system but I really want the Treasury out and we have some really good ideas of what to do there and there's several papers we've written the gonnit and ESS and we have a working prototype in Python that they've played around with for a bit so there's there's some magic there there's also some work we've been doing on the snark side that may be useful for the anonymous voting protocol they're using partial additive homomorphic encryption and some of those primitives may be a bit heavy so there might be some ways to optimize those so more publication are coming but that's an example of something just leading the lab and entering into implementation and we'll get it done but it's got to be done in 2020 we will not leave card ATO as a project until the Treasury is deployed and stable so you know the CIP process has to be good voting has to look good and then the Treasury comes and those are requirements before I which can even consider leaving so even if it slips I'll spend my own money to keep it going until we get that out so it's it's very very important Charles have you ever read steven pinker yes enlightenment now is a great book and actually makes you realize that things are getting better life is getting better I'd encourage everybody to read that if you run into any of these damn college kids get a little nose ring and their postmodernist and they today look life is so horrible everything is unfair hierarchy intersectional politics most modernism give them a copy of that book and just watch them get super triggered I'd love trigger breaking people who'd win a sumo you are a fatality honestly have to ask that question so come on guys I got like a hundred pounds I can photonic I take him let's join forces with di Lammermoor damnit hello some things cannot be forgiven alright what else we got here come on guys give me some good questions say something nice about about etc' yeah you know etc' is still near and dear to my heart I'd like to do something significant meaningful there and we're having right now a lot of internal conversations about what our future participation with the etcc is going to be so what we're going to do is we're going to probably submit a grant proposal to collection of funding agencies that have committed capital to e.t.c and we'll basically line out how much money it would take for us to put something very innovative the reality is we have a lot of protocols that are sitting on the shelf that we could implement put into mantas and I very strongly believe would make etc' a significantly better product than what a theory incurrent Lee is on market and what a theorem will be on market even after they get done with Casper so so it's the athira classic community's ultimate choice whether they want to go down that road or not and if they don't well then you know we've committed ourselves to building a client we did that and we were in the ecosystem for a long time uncompensated and people have to realize that nothing is free you know at some point there has to be a business model that allows us to sustainably stay in or else it's a donation and you have a fear and aetherium classic fan you for the rest of time can use the client that we constructed to run the ecosystem so we put our money where our mouth was mission accomplished and that we're moving on into the next phase minutes this is a proposal to dramatically improve the state of affairs it will cost money to build and it's up to the theme class community whether they want to do that or not and if they don't well then we're gonna have to retire the client we'll move that team on to bigger and brighter things interviewed VCS always talk about untested lesser-known protocols like disability pesos I would differentiate Definity and taste those taste those two certainly tested it does have really good code good community although their community does say horrific things about us especially Japanese arm of it I will say that they're loyal to their founder Definity hasn't to my knowledge released anything yet on market they will at some point as for a VC is talking positively about them because they took financial positions in these protocols you know they've invested in them so of course you're going to talk positively you know if you invest in entrepreneur a over B you're of course gonna say a is better than B even if it's objectively not I don't get bothered by that I do get bothered by organizations or media outlets that's supposedly our objective just deciding to blacklist us and not cover us and those organizations being perceived to be credible or objective in the space we've had certainly very strong disagreements with clean discs everything from simple things like an invitation to speak at consensus to the fact that we've solved major problems like proof of stake in sidechains and these get zero coverage we never get asked to comment on our articles even though in some cases the articles are directly involved in our business areas and there's even apples to apples comparison it's like for example the case of where we had a we funded millions of dollars into setting up research labs at Tokyo Tech University of Edinburgh University of Athens no coverage but then the Stanford lab for theory on gets coverage so ones newsworthy the other ones not even though we're doing the same things and by the way our paper volume is an order back to hire and our peer review success rate is significantly better so the output of the labs we started it's significantly better the innovations of our labs is significantly better yet somehow that's not worthy of even a basic stub we're right now negotiating building a currency for six million people I think it's probably the most significant event is the currency space if it gets through there was even any conversation or discussion about writing a potential article like they're doing something here it's not newsworthy apparently so these are the kinds of thing that deeply bother me because you know be one thing if it was like a consensus owned media arm or something that has the okay it's the competition's media so that's why they're not covering us but it is supposedly an objective publication but it's not i Nixon had his issues with New York Times I have my issues with with Coyne desk obey has his issues with a Sonny everybody has their their favorite publication that they don't feel is giving them a fair shake that said these organizations are significantly less meaningful then media was even ten years ago at any time I'm go to Twitter and a hundred thousand people read it we have fifty plus thousand people in our reddit there's tens of thousands of people on telegram these AMAs routinely get thousands if not tens of thousands of views so as a consequence it's like we don't really need somebody to write an article about us to get a message across in Franklin we're in markets that they're not you know we get all the time National Press and Ethiopia and Mongolia and other places I'm going to Georgia we're probably going to have all the media represented there and think they're top-tier publications all throughout the russian-speaking world so do we really care know there's old saying the dog barks the caravan moves on [Music] Charles would you consider going vegan clean body and mind make you even more genius I'm a big fan of the ketogenic diet when I follow it I feel really really good and I feel a lot healthier and there's tons of great things written about it there you know veganism vegetarianism is an interesting thing it doesn't make a have illusionary sense to me the reality is that you know we were a hunter-gatherer culture and we would scavenge whatever we could come up with but it seems to me like the body because food is scarce would likely be by default in a ketogenic state and that we metabolize glucose only when only one that was available to us so there are certainly ways to be in ketosis while while eating vegetables and plants and these things but it's a heck of a lot harder than eating meat products and I think there's a conflation of the ethics of the consumption of me from the from the biological reality of that life is tough things kill other things going to Africa teaches you that you see a lion eat something it's really a horrific sight but that's how the world has worked since before any of us were here and after we're all gone and it'll continue to work this way so um I just follow the science follow common-sense think about things from an evolutionary perspective and the ketogenic side of things just makes more sense that said it's it's harder to follow then you'd think especially when you live life on the go one of the reasons why I'm trying to travel less is because I do want to get healthy before I started all my businesses I would about to be 180 190 pounds I feel great exercised reasonably every day and now about 235 gained a lot of weight and you know stomach's not as good as it used to be called letters not as good as it used to be there's a lot of issues there they're getting better and there's a lot of great knowledge and I have good doctors and good nutritionist it's just a matter of consistency to solve that so the key for me being healthy is to stay in one place for long enough that we commit to something and be able to follow it through if I have to keep traveling it probably will kill me hello and I just say I should stop traveling and the James says Charles could you swing through London to attend to do a keynote at the crypto am event on June 25th and it's a Smith's of Olinsky so steak and red wine and plenty [Laughter] sometimes I think people don't actually listen to things I say if you ever meet the real satoshi nakamoto Moto's gone by the way another thing that's coming is Latin bromine and that'll be here in the next 25 years and then yeah there can be ethical consumption of meat products then it really will force the issue you know the the other issue I have with people the vegan categories they just have this damn moral superiority over everybody else you know it's like oh I'm just trying to be part of the solution problem you know brah and I just get off of yourself come on brah bulletproof coffee is great and I do drink but that's very nice and you actually write keto is not maintainable in the long term so you have to have something like this low carb diet or things like that and Michael lesser is actually an expert on anti-aging because he's a doctor who studies this stuff the resveratrol is great the only problem is bioavailability when you take supplements they don't absorb very well so you have to get it from other sources and intermittent fasting is great there's a doctor who has written a lot about it his name is dr. Fung and he's a nephrologist based in Canada with the UCLA and he wrote a nice book on intermittent fasting my experience easiest one to maintain is the is the 16-8 fast where you don't eat for 16 hours and then you you eat for an eight-hour window and that's usually like 12 p.m. to 8 p.m. that's a good window and just skipping breakfast or you can do a fat fast for breakfast like drinks and bulletproof coffee and move your way through another thing I've recently started taking is apple cider vinegar really good stuff really good stuff humans won't be here in 25 years and it's probably true we'll be some sort of non-human entity what do you think of mushroom decriminalization in Colorado it's another interesting question so I'll preface this by saying that anyone interested in this topic should read Michael Pollan's book it's it'll come to me in a moment I read it on Kindle great book I and it basically talks about psychedelics their history starting from the discovery of LSD in the 50s all the way through the 60s and the Golden Age to the decriminalization movement to the gradual and criminalization and you'll find out that mushrooms in particular philosophy mushrooms have been studied for I think over ten years out of Johns Hopkins they actually had a group there and they really how to change your mind that's the name and they and they work really wonders on treatment of end-of-life issues depression or generally speaking people that suffer from anxiety and and there's a whole purpose of research that's coming out of that they're not habit-forming and there's just no evidence that they actually have substantial negative consequences for normal healthy people who consume them in the right environment set in setting or a hugely important thing but I defer to my components book I'd also highly recommend reading pulse Damon stuff he's an expert in my ecology and he talks about these things and even has a lot of patents I and honestly it's just a about a way of using your brain differently and thinking about things differently and they provide a you know a way of looking at the world that potentially is advantageous to people who get caught thought patterns that can have on negative consequences that said it's it's one of those things where it's being gradually reintroduced to the medical community just like CBD and THC is being and the problem with that is that we definitely don't know where the boundaries are and you know the the hallmark of allopathic medicine was that we started using a science-based approach we said okay we understand that all these things could have positive health consequences but let's concede that they also could have negative health consequences and perhaps they only work for you because metabolically you're different than Bob or Alex so let's study these things and with controlled groups and and double-blind studies and what's overtime through clinical trial trial try to separate you know D both in fiction from fact the challenges that this process is political and the two areas words really impacted society the most I'd say is on the ketogenic diet as well see use of psychedelics because in both cases these things got politicized unnecessarily by a small minority of decision makers in the 60s and 70s and as a consequence it's resulted in basically these topics becoming taboo for several decades and it's only by the heroic actions of many people have we been able to bring these things back into the fore side and by the emergence of Joe Rogan and the Internet and the intellectual dark web and intentionally instantaneous flow of communication and overtime these things will open up and will now be able to apply proper science to them and figure out where the boundaries are and what is good and what's not so good the other thing is that the tools that we have drawn experiments are considerably better you know we can actually look at people's genes we can actually take significantly more sophisticated labs and other things that at a much lower cost than we could a generation ago so these things will come and we'll be in a good position within the next 20 or 30 years so I think the decriminalization is the great thing it's just insane to arrest people for possessing psychedelics doesn't harm anybody and frankly it it's just a counterculture a reactionary of society you know against hippies in the 60s and 70s and the people who made those decisions are long dead and it's a good thing that they're out of power it's good to go back Kito is just bad science yeah sure it is sure it is okay attalos already built in its built in Scala pets Gregg Kido is crap fasting as the ultimate healing tool constructive fasting when you're fasting you're actually in ketosis your glucose doors go awake very quickly and the only thing that you can metabolize at that point is your proteins and your fat in the the proteins get converted into glucose through a process called gluconeogenesis and the ketone bodies get absorbed and you know okay I love people Charles what sightseeing did you do in Mongolia I I went to LA to karakorum and then I also went to the Gobi Desert and I stayed at the rooms of karakorum which is which was just a phenomenal experience I mean that place was pretty magical because the eight hundred years ago it was a place to be you know just like New York City was the place to be right at the turnitin 1920s century or if it was the 18th 19th century London was the place to be karakorum was just absolutely amazing talk with leading cardiologist who study diets as much CEO for I which K they all disagree with what you're saying sure they do yeah and they'd also tell you to take statins too when people don't need to take it all right lady Karakorum it's a wonderful place to go it's it's like nothing is there there's just some walls and but 800 years ago it was really the seat of power of the Mongol Empire which probably had more landmass than any other empire in the world and it was just a magical place first there was free religion which was almost unheard of in that time period where they had Taoist and Buddhists and Muslims and all kinds of interesting people there they even had this one fountain they say that actually had alcohol free flowing alcohol where basically they did connect it and it would just be rude come out of it or whatever they had and people just come by with mugs and drinks as much as they want it because the Mongols had so much money from conquering the world they could afford to pay for these Public Works systems and it all just got swept away Hey within two centuries which is just an incredible thought I think you can feel this gargantuan Empire you can conquer anybody get rid of anybody but then somehow 200 years later it's it's gone and so it was real fun to stay in a gear here by there and also the Gobi Desert was a lot of fun to see as well I wrote a camel around and punched up some sand dunes rolled out some sand dunes and you know that's that's one of the highlights of the job is when you could take a little bit of time off because we had a meeting with the president but we had a kind of a glide day in between so we just drove down stayed overnight and then came back and met with the president when you have those little windows to actually take those things that's what makes the job really interesting you know and speaking of which doctor is disagreeing with something at one point being a homeless official was actually an illness look at the old DSM you know medical knowledge changes and I think there's just not a lot of signs to back up this idea that consumption of a high-fat diet will directly lead to heart disease inflammation for for heart disease in the 50s it fits the data far better than consumption of fad diets because I didn't change between the 1930s and 1950s but there's a huge surge in the amount of people smoking why because all the soldiers smoked and they went home and then their family members smoked you know the smoking rates went up considerably we had this thing called World War two what else do we have and yeah there is legit peer-reviewed science supporting ketosis as well you just choose to ignore it you know look at dog D'Agostino or or a Peter Atia for example where he actually cites numerous studies but he's a doctor Damas is a PhD researcher University of Florida so it's not ubiquitous you're talking about mushrooms and drugs like what does this mean for the Cardinal project you're disgracing the integrity of the project the roadmap has been pushed back several times you're a phony big fat phony sometimes a yeah yeah the high sugars what kills me sometimes I think that people just saying these things did they have fun Reese's watching it loves you how's the project with the Greek University goes that was done with gr nati it completed and I think they're actually using in production we're still doing great research at a University of Athens we have an office in Athens it's a beautiful office and I try to go out there every three to six months yeah I love Greece I've been all throughout Greece Corfu and Mykonos and so forth Kalamata any thoughts on the Microsoft identity overlay on Bitcoin it made a hell a lot of sense you know the thing about my first choosing to deploy on Bitcoin is it was a great example of making the least controversial decision you can make so you say we need to anchor what we're doing to something in the open public realm if you do aetherium that's a bit political if you do Bitcoin no one's going to complain and there was enough juice in Bitcoin to permit Microsoft use case and all the magic happens off chain so I think it's a great great great step forward for the entire industry what's particularly nice is it's an abrasive that did standard from the w3c that a centralized identifier and that's super important for self sovereign identity so it's it's incredibly encouraging to see a company that historically has been not a friend of open-source and not a friend of standards to embrace standards and to give some political cover for large companies to come on in and do something there's a lot of other things like the sovereign foundation and hyper ledger indie and I'd highly encourage people look at the digital identity foundation it's called DIF and also read the w3c s did standard if they're curious about where the identity space is at and frankly if you're planning on building a product that involves identity highly recommend you just for college or indie and just play around with it for a month and that in itself would giving you more information than any book can about where we at in this space and it's um it's really nice and now vaccinations doesn't cause autism that's just bad science let's see what else we have here quantum resistance we're working on it we have Peter Schwabe on that and Alex Russell's also working on it there's been a lot of discussions about what the best way of doing it's going to be more likely than not it'll be a checkpoint that we put at the end of each epoch using some form of a post quantum key so either a lattice or hash based crypto we're looking at hash based crypto X MSS and some modifications Fink's or to ideas that we've seen that's a good step one but then the next step is to actually look at quantum an adversary and then kind of model what upon an adversary can do and then write some sort of proof that we're resistant to a Pontiff adversary the challenge is that a lot of the cryptographic primitives like everything that goes into these snarks or everything that goes into a vrf where a vdf are vulnerable to quantum repeaters and so there's really really hard to make these things quantum resistant or if you do so you do so at a tremendous cost so while we've kind of have an easy way of handling the public free crypto side that's just using the post quantum crypto primitive it's a lot harder when you talk about more sophisticated cryptography that's built on assumptions like discrete log or the hardness of energy factorization or something like that so anyway we're looking into it we'll publish a paper at some point I am trying real real hard to get that out I they told me it would come out in January with us or things get just busy and we we missed a window and then everybody was just getting ready for crypto and euro Krypton CCS submission deadlines and so they just put everything aside to finish their stuff so now that that stuff is over we're basically getting back to it but you know even if we had a perfect design name would be one of those things we didn't went after a Shelley came out so you know there it wasn't a mission-critical thing which is why I didn't react to hostile e to this stuff with all the money you have why would you buy a Cadillac because the Cadillac ct-6 2019 is certain the finest car ever made and it's just amazing the tenth it's gonna it's gonna twin turbo v6 and at 400 horsepower I have a ten speed transmission 4-wheel steering lift a Nissan Skyline it's got the Magna ride suspension system you know everything is just automatic it's got super sophisticated sensitive areas I got the super cruise it drives itself and it's like fifty thousand dollars cheaper than an equivalent mercedes-benz s-class and when I take it to a mechanic I can take it to a GM dealership and have it fixed whereas if I had a Benz I could not do that think it through Abu you hide it at Ben's s63 AMG coupe now if you're gonna get a coupe well then you know get a get a proper sports car don't just buy a coupe and ct-6 is amazing Charles are you looking at an integrated solar battery 24/7 power scenario for the miniature staking pools that are being built the rock pie boards that Marcus put together actually had a battery system on them and we did a demo when we showed that you could use a solar cell to charge that the challenge is a few that far off the grid how would you get Internet connectivity so there is an open question of could be right rent some satellite spectrum and then use that to actually have a relay system like what block stream is been exploring and what would be the cost incurred of that that's kind of a 20/20 thing got a 20-19 thing the first step is just to get a stinking pool running and then get it at a very low cost point and then at the next step would be saying well let's build an ecosystem around that and we definitely have talked a lot with certain people about what would it look like and how much money would it cost us to have a to have you know alternative internet for these things we are the IOT project that we're doing in Mongolia it may actually help us with steak pie preparation and that uses something out of the normal internet because use the Loreal protocol there and no I don't have a DeLorean better than a Tesla Model S was ludicrous speed nothing is faster than a Tesla Model S was ludicrous because looked like aventador level in a sedan you can't beat a battery-powered car for acceleration but you know within 10 20 years all these cars are gonna be hybrids and they're gonna have battery acceleration because you get maximum torque at zero rpm and I will give you the Lexus as a really they have amazing sedans as well used to have an Rx and that was great you know I liked the r8 until they did the redesign after 2012 and it was like yeah the old 2008 design was beautiful I guess we all saw Iron Man and he said wow that was just the car to have is ADA and the new world order well if it was then Coit desk would cover us we can't get her press coverage that's how you know when they're not talk let's find something do you hang with MJ that Michael Jordan Michael Jackson Bob Sacramento when tractor yes I do have a John Deere you got it now it's a year hi Charles I'm an artist in an investor car how would I go about showing you your team some of my paintings of sculpture my art check with a history computer tech and social media we're always interested in that so it's just send me a tweet link to some way of contacting you and what I'll do is follow you can p.m. me some stuff and I'll put you in contract with our director of design Richard Wilde and we'd love to see your portfolio that's actually how we did the artwork for the posters that we did for the Shelley for the I which case summit came from somebody we saw over Twitter and we said wow that's really cool Charles is a rollback of the Bitcoin blockchain possible yes it is theoretically possible is it likely no and the price you see is a reflection of that lack of likeliness have you heard if open Bazaar will add ADA too it's accepted Kryptos you know at some point we'll probably do that actually I think DNS is andros worked on a bazaar and we have some people that I which came to research that are contributing to that particular project so we're friends with them they're good people CEO is not a bad dude there's it's it's a good project and so there's no reason we can't work together it's just one of those things that just comes takes time and it's not a super high priority but we'll get there Keanu Reeves Arnold Schwarzenegger sports a [ __ ] I'm all blurry I'm sorry I'm blurry guys doesn't look blurry on my end Charles is a rollback of Cardinal harder to achieve than Bitcoin I would argue yes once everything ships that's the point of original research is that you can you can get really strong guarantees of how expensive it is to do things and then also because of the quantum resistance we're periodically putting checkpoints into the system and then you can you know put a PFT piggyback protocol and you can get some absolute finality of things yeah I'm sorry if it's blurry unfortunately this is the best I can get all right one last question guys well you know my family how's your dad mark and your brother William doing my dad is doing good he lives up in Wyoming and as does my brother they're both in the same town and my my MOT just had theirs working himself to death he's also a doctor he's having way too much fun with that and he's also getting into real estate as well as you know doctors apparently have he has too much he has too little work to do as an internist Wyoming's a good place I actually went up there just a few days ago and visited the University of Wyoming and wonderful campus apartment chair computer science department Jim's a good guy and that we we had a chance to see their research portfolio I also have a few friends at the math department that I knew from when I was in math so I visited them it's just nice to be able to to go back to a university in the United States and spend some time there the European system when the Asian system is so different that it doesn't feel like home but you ever see Wyoming's a little bit like cu-boulder just a lot smaller so it's it is nice to be there okay let's see here Charles are you going to copyright card ah no like Craig satoshi right yeah first off these attempts to copyright the Bitcoin white paper there's been a lot of conflation and it's just strange reporting especially from the SV side of the implications of this first anyone could have done what Craig did in terms of getting a copyright there is no vetting process you file a form you say something and says under penalty of perjury do you say this is true say yes and then they give it to you but there's no interview it's not like going for security clearance or anything you don't have to provide supporting documentation so technically anyone listening to this could repeat that same process second even if let's say for the sake of the argument is Satoshi and she's not Melissa is then under that setting you couldn't go on retro actively change the software license that's called promissory estoppel so basically there's a five part test under US law but the long short is you can't go safe thing like this is under an MIT software license person then goes and build something and uses that and then retroactively Lee change a license and say well I've now changed it so therefore you have to pay me royalties or something like that because that would be an unconscionable action it would cause substantial economic harm and nobody would have entered into that implied commercial relationship ie licensing your open source software and knowing that they would retroactively Lee had the rug pulled out from underneath them so there's really never been a kick is person someone has had an open-source software license and then the original author women tried to change it back to something else and the demand that people license it now from them now future versions of the software commits from a certain period of time of course can change the license but then there's an open question of well who has even the right to do that because there were other actors who committed to the MIT license so the software that Satoshi wrote is totally different than the software that Bitcoin sv or big coining cash was based on so I just think it's a fundamental misunderstanding of of software licensing it's a fundamental misunderstanding of how copyright law works and also how copyright law is used but it's definitely an anticipation to probably further litigation so I wouldn't be surprised to see that that copyright is now used for slander lawsuits and a litany of other things and this is just an unfortunate a case of rich people abusing the legal system to harm other people and that's just the world we live in I mean yeah Satoshi isn't much an idea as it was a person and so the idea is this concept of creating something and giving it to the world and then allowing the world to use it to make the world a better place it was not about patenting things and controlling things and allowing one person to go on a crazy ego trip I mean why would somebody invest so much time and effort and it has such good operational security to staying anonymous only then to just show up magically years later and then has systematically burned the reputation that individual down so it is what it is I think it's a cult more so than anything else and every experience I've had with that side of the aisle has just been profoundly distasteful it's always opened up with threats of force if not legal than violence and has always opened up with this desire to control and to dominate which is antithetical to every single thing the cryptocurrency space stands for but you know people reasonable people can disagree and at some point probably I'll get sued you know if this continues but the more it continues the more damage it will do ultimately self inflict the damage that ecosystem and hopefully will end that dark chapter at some point and if they need to replace the K framework with K is not gone the framework is still there you know it's it's still around I mean a good Gauri is working on it other people do work with it it just we chose not to renew the contract for 2019 we may come back to it 2020 and the in the circumstances facts will be different in 2020 than they are today it's just reality was we weren't going to ship anything related to yellow or K this year and we had kind of three pray three criteria for the old commercial relationship we wanted a full K rewrite and a demonstration that it matched the old K version second we wanted a demonstration semantic space compilation was totally automated and 2n and third we wanted a reasonable performance window with the machine generated code we didn't quite get there and you know the markets collapsed and you know we were in a position where some of the fat had to be cut we had to focus in on the core project the same thing happened with Reena so you know that that's something our V is thinking about they do this work every day there's a recipient of grants we're also putting other funding coalition's all the time we have I think seven grants that were applying for so when more funding materializes we can go back to that but right now we're Plutus focused and marlowe focus and that's gonna be the first step in Gogan but by it by no means isn't gonna be the last step it is important that we have something to say about the imperative side of the world that's not going away and so we will have a solution for that that that makes sense it's just you know with anything in high-risk high-return research sometimes it works like with or Boris and it doesn't quite work for you like what happened with us with Kay and there's some very very kind words being uttered in the chat sometimes you just wonder what people must be like when they're at home you know they must treat other people the same way that they treat me they must be really dreary terrible people fundamentally unhappy you know just miserable miserable people I pity them I really do Karina's not gone it's just we didn't fund read it to his fullest extent the whole 60-man months of engineering and five million dollars was a bit too much to swallow so we built a lesser version of it with the mini protocol design that we now have in the network stack and we'll come back to it at some point good ideas never die they just get recycled and actually in some cases a limitation of resources allows you to build better things you know there's no greater example of that then George Lucas with Star Wars you know when you made the first Star Wars movie I think they're like a million dollars is something like that it's very small budget so there are all these things you want to do like crazy things where Han Solo character it was gonna be some bizarre ass alien with aesthetics and maybe good but they just didn't have the money for it's okay so they said like okay I guess it'll just be a scoundrel and that it you know it was Han Solo that we know and love and had he had huge amounts of money and unlimited resources you end up getting something that looks like the Phantom Menace so sometimes the constraints actually force you to build better products than overabundance of resources it can be just as damaging all right box a nobody you avoid real questions you go ahead and give me a real question go ahead you have 60 seconds type quickly what's your real question come on man clock is ticking Eggman come on man well in the meantime I'll give you it a little bit of extra time Justin says what are you gonna deal on your month off I'm not off I'm just in Colorado and I'm actually leave Colorado pretty soon I'm still running IOH ki I have several hour meeting every day including on Saturday and Sunday it's just I'm working from home in our office in Longmont not not abroad when will we have a working product okay Bogdan define working product give me an exact definition come on man hurry hurry waiting men see they can't actually we can't actually give it they can deal it but they can't take it you see we already have a working product we meet Shelley we told you Shelley and there's a clear roadmap and a guideline on how to get there we told you how we're gonna build it we if we're building it and once it's built we'll tell you how we built it I mean it's like we're follow the paolo habilis tile if development I love it did you convert your Bitcoin assets into ADA no I sold them sold them for Fiat because Bitcoin reached its peak it was at $20,000 and that wasn't sustainable and then what happens is you gradually go back into crypto at the bottom it's called timing a cycle all right I guess he'd bounced off oh well okay we got 10 minutes left before the two-hour mark and that's where we'll clip it so come on give me something good dad in this I'm sure you don't want to have another shot Bogdan yeah the first rocky was great man you know Sylvester slow is still has the original turtles from that movie they're like 40 years older he's still hat Azzam it was a wonderful movie at first rocky rocky 4 was pretty good too that was that was just a great experience and actually I really enjoyed Rocky Balboa for development of Shelley it's in the millions every month it's really expensive to keep everybody going but you know that's the way the cookie crumbles doubt me take a look at the size of the team on the website asking for bogdan are there any challenges on to listing on coinbase i can't talk about coinbase you signed a nondisclosure agreement all I could say is coinbase is a great company and they contribute a lot to the space and we'd love to work with them in some capacity at some point in the future and we hope for the best is the otter of the overall coat going to slow release of Shelley well there does have to be an end end security audit we're overdue for that I guess you've written so much new code there's also a lot of QA that we do within our own company we have an auditing group there based from RPI SEC and then we also have dedicated Q&A Department we didn't use a lot of sophisticated tools and techniques because the formal methods side of the organization but a security audit does need to be done and it needs to be done by a non ihk entity so our preferred auditor is Cadell ski we didn't reach out to them and we had a conversation about when and how we can begin the audit and we're already starting to space out components of the system that are ready for audit generally speaking it on it does take about three to six weeks depending upon resource availability can take a little longer and then there's a some notion of remediation of what's discovered beyond it no matter how good you are there's always something because these are very complicated systems it's not going to substantially slow us down but it does it is something that you need to do because you need some independent assurance of what we've constructed is he's secure we did this with mantas we also did this with the Cardinal rust client and Icarus and we feel a moral obligation to also do this with the final version of Shelly are you gonna have a team in Wyoming yes that's actually why I went up to University of Wyoming we will have a discussion about exactly what that team looks like and where that team's going to be you know but we will have a team there I think it's incredibly hard to it's incredibly important when a politician passes a law to incorporating a shingle you need to have substance in the jurisdictions so to me that means working with the local universities and working with the local developers and keeping people within the state living in the state paying taxes in the state so we will have something there how big well you know that's up to the incentives five minutes left flip it it - come on guys give me something good did you name the wallet after the ship I know we named Daedalus actually after Daedalus the historical figure or mythological figure the father of Icarus and the constructor of the maze Charles II believe Sheldon Tina twenty nineteen hundred percent again I will eat my shoe if we if we don't ship that in fact you guys can even recommend what shoe you want me to II know it could be a sketch or it can be a cowboy boot probably be easier to eat a cowboy boot but I will eat it if we don't have it all right well nothing good is coming up so that said I guess we'll clip it here all right thanks everybody for a great ama I had a lot of fun I love doing these and they're just really interesting it's always nice to talk to the community and I'll try to do these more frequently and I do hope that we can keep getting great questions you've been a wonderful audience and even baktun I love all of you take care Cheers
