everybody charles hoskinson here another one of your favorite etc videos so i wanted to give everybody a heads up of what's coming down the pipe on our side for next week so as promised we delivered both the 51 attack video and you can see it on the ihk youtube channel we also drafted two ecips the first ecip is the cip on the 51 attack resistance we submitted it to the ethereum classic ecip repo but we're not actively participating in whatever process they have so i don't even know if they're going to accept it or not so we proactively created our own repositories and the ihk github for ecips so that we couldn't be censored and people can actually see what we've written so this contains a whole description of a variety of different options for 51 attack resistance uh it's a good read there's probably a typo or two the person who wrote it is brilliant engineer but english is not his first language so we'll send a technical writer through to check it because there's probably a typo or a grammatical error one or two different places so setting that aside the technology is really good and we've as i've mentioned tested it on uh mantis already and demonstrated in the video of 51 attack resistance uh so this will solve the problem completely but it does come with some trade-offs to be discussed the other ecip that we constructed was the treasury ecip and this treasury ecip contains not only a description of a proto-treasury system but it also contains the source code for a treasury contract which is about 700 lines of solidity at the moment so uh the reference implementation is actually right here and you guys can go through that install it play around with it and enjoy it and that's pretty much it for the ecips so as i mentioned in my prior video there's really four stages to getting this stuff done because we're moving beyond just hey should we adopt something or not we're moving into philosophy land so it's kind of you p so understandability practicality philosophy and comparison are the four stages that exist before we get to a point where there's consensus so right now we're here in the understandability so we submitted two ecips and those ecips are publicly available and we could just rest on our laurels and say oh look at the ecips but the reality is that they have to be unpacked discussed and we have to kind of go through them as a community so next week what we're going to do is host a meeting that anybody can attend and the purpose of this meeting is to do a presentation and go through the ecips we'll have a meeting for each ecip so this is the checkpoint and this is the treasury and we'll have a presentation probably around 30 minutes long and then that's going to be followed by a q a this is not a debate this is not about whether this is a good idea or a bad idea or your idea is better the sole point of this meeting which will be recorded and publicly available and anybody can join is so that we can kind of get to a point where people have a pretty good idea of what we're attempting to do so the understandability component of the ecip process okay and this is not a comparison meeting not saying well this is why we're better than vera block or peer guard or whatever that's not the point of that it's just so that people can understand what's going on so if you come in expecting a debate uh there's it will be moderated that's just not going to happen the next step is practicality and the practicality component is saying okay how difficult would this be to implement so we have three clients we have mantis who cares about that we're going to take care of that so it's going to get done regardless and it's already implemented mantis but then there are other clients to consider and there's a question about the implementation path and so what we're going to do is we're going to write some docs uh basically two one for implementation in one of the clients and one for the implementation the other client and give a kind of a rough idea of what an implementation path would look like to get into those clients and we'll of course send those to the court devs of those clients and we would love to have dialogue with them so we will write something up and think about it real hard and then send it their way and say if you want to go down this road this is how you would probably get it done for your client and there we'd also try to get an estimation of of work so we try to get an understanding is this one week is this one month you know is this three months dot dot dot okay again this is not a debate uh this is not about our solutions better than your solution the first two stages are strictly about understanding what you're actually trying to do and then understanding how it would be done and how much work is required for that to be done understandability and practicality okay and this process should be replicated for every single person who's proposing something and we'd like to participate in that so the very same people that will host and moderate the understandability meeting uh that'll probably be tim and we'll ask kevin lord if he wants to play i we would love to redo this for all the other proposals so for vera block we already talked to justin and they want to go do this i'm the peer guard guys it would be uh really cool for them to do this as well and we'll show up and and give them the same courtesy we ask other people to give us which is we'll just ask questions because we want to understand what this is about and then we'd like to get understanding what the implementation path looks like for their options okay then the last two are where we actually start getting into a debate a little bit okay so this is philosophy and when you talk about philosophy you have to make an argument of how this fits our values now i noticed etc labs the minute i started talking said everything i was saying is against the values of etc i guess they're the custodians of that before we even propose anything or write anything down on paper apparently it violates the values i don't understand that but this is the part where you begin to have that exploration what does code's law mean and these solutions what are the philosophical implications of them when you go to a federated system for example what that effectively means is that you are no longer a pure proof-of-work system so all of that belief about where truth comes from security comes from has to change a little bit when you change your consensus algorithm from one type of proof of work to another type of proof work that uses different hardware it changes who's in control and there has to be some discussion about the philosophical implications of this both on the treasury side and on the consensus side and this is where people for example like don we disagree with him a lot but at least he writes articles about this and says this is what our values are or how i perceive our values to be and so that type of dialogue is quite productive here because now everybody's on equal footing we all understand each other we all understand the cost of pursuing that approach and now we're in a position where we have to start making some decisions about what fits the philosophy and what doesn't fit the philosophy and the last stage is comparison so each of these ideas carry basically a understandability a practicality and a philosophical connection so you know we'll say idea one you have a upp for that idea two you have a upp for that idea three you have a upp for that okay and the community has to start making some decisions there has to be some sort of decentralized way of converging to a decision now in this particular case because people are not being fully honest and there's some duplicity here i do not believe that anything we produce regardless of the arguments we make regardless of how technically sound they are are going to be implemented by certain teams we ran into this with etc dev uh back in 2017 they were not even willing to entertain the conversation okay so what this effectively means is that users are going to have to vote and they're going to vote with their client so come november we should have at very least a test net but very strong possibility a mainnet version of mantis and mantis will carry our ecip code that we adopt for 51 attack protection as well as all the code necessary for the hard fork event uh that will start populating the treasury they no one can stop us from submitting the treasury contract that's the nature of vtc so that will already be submitted before november now we will talk to the other people in the ecosystem about having their clients also support this code but you as an etc user can make a decision do you want to keep the old code that's been forked from someone else and copy pasted and maintained by shallow development or do you want to adopt a security audited well-tested well-understood client that's been built from the ground up for etc and this choice you make carries profound implications if you go with the old clients which are seldom updated and don't really have a lot of innovation behind them what you're effectively doing is giving consent to that management model if you go with mantis what you're doing is saying i agree with these ecips i'm not telling you what to do it's your decision as a etc user as a ether classic holder but i'm just telling you that voting with your client is the first level of voting in the system if we find out that two-thirds of the clients are mantis after we release it in some period of time has passed then we'll push for the hard fork if it's less than that then we'll have a broader discussion about options up to a burn smart contract to create a second ecosystem to basically be an exodus and leave behind those who've decided to stay in effectively a dead chain so we'll have some discussions at that time but this is basically the process we're going to follow we don't know what the 51 attack solution is going to be that we implement we've already implemented our own but i am legitimately curious about vera block and other options and i'd love to create a collaborative process where people talk to each other so that we can get to a point where we feel uh and others feel comfortable with whatever that solution happens to be and i do believe that that is less controversial than the treasury idea and there's probably going to be broad consensus around something but we have to get to a point where we understand the cost of it we understand what it means the philosophical implications of it and the option space that we have and going to discord is not going to solve that problem going to twitter or telegram or reddit is not going to solve that problem those are shallow pointless mob like conversations they have to be held in a structured respectful way where each team who has taken the time to present something is given the time to have the spotlight and be able to show that thing to the etc community and explain why their idea is good and the burdens on them to also explain why it is compatible with their understanding of the philosophy of etc if we follow this process i honestly do believe we will converge to a good decision on the 51 attack solution that most people agree with outside of ego or perhaps economic pressure the treasury system i just don't believe anything we say there is going to convince certain members of the community they've already decided and they're not going to bend or move and it's just a question of are they in the majority or the minority and what is the second plan people ask well what would you do with the treasury here's a potential road map that we can write up and it'll be part of the discussion here's a beautiful protocol from to promote out of stanford uiuc mit and cmu these are some of the top computer science schools in the world this protocol is a new proof of work protocol fully implemented in rust and it's 10 000 times faster with bitcoin about 100 times faster with ethereum already tested replayed the entire network 10 years of history in just a few weeks okay we would implement something like this we would move from the stock evm and adopt the jello paper and go to the kevm and then fully adopt and build up the firefly framework because code is law you have to have proper tooling for that we would also probably put encoded merkle trees and get rid of these merkel patricia tries so these are examples of things we would do if we were there and can build a roadmap we'd make the system 100 times faster we would put it on much more solid theoretical foundations and applied foundations for proper smart contract development and of course we would link it to technology that's sustainable and growing and built by some of the best people in the world who are from some of the best universities in the world doing peer-reviewed research that's already out on market probably also entertain a discussion about the nature of the consensus algorithm probably switch it to something like a sha-3 or a random accent that's a philosophical conversation okay so if there was a road map there we could put one together and independent teams funded from the treasury could put their road maps together and we could repeat this process of understandability and practicality and philosophy and comparison the difference is these teams would be working together and they'd be beholden to no one and then the community could decide which route makes more sense how aggressive do they want to be how much simplicity versus complexity do they want to have this is what a world with a treasury looks like constant progress constant innovation constant discussion and dialogue from independent people who have the freedom to speak up when they see things aren't going the way that they think they should be going and compromise people getting along working together or you can have the past which has been now four plus years of no progress four plus years of copy paste four plus years of limited adoption no dap growth no token growth and only a small group of people who have access to all of the funds if you disagree with those people they're just going to basically ignore you and then you have no voice in the ecosystem this is the reality of etc it's not worth anyone's time in my view if that's going to be the status quo as i've said before and frankly the chain will continue to live for quite some time just like nxt is still around and other ecosystems are still around but it's going to run out of steam and people are going to ignore it and it will continue to fall down coin market cap with no future i don't want that to happen too many good people have worked too long too many people have invested their brand their time their effort into trying to keep this concept of coda's law viable we have a good path with formal semantics with formal testing frameworks to be able to do something different and legitimately novel in the cryptocurrency space and do that at a scale that even ethereum two is probably not going to have for a while and that's something that we can have in 2021 as an option and we can do it with three independent clients three independent teams and people can enjoy that diversity and the each and every one of these teams can bring their own ideas their own flair and their own capabilities into the ecosystem that's what a treasury will get you and it's not pie in the sky a long way off a lot of this technology is already fully implemented it exists it's sitting up on the shelf waiting for people to plug it into a client so in terms of that practicality it's quite practical it's ready to go and how do you know it works because the best computer scientists at the best universities in the united states spent over two years of their life thinking about how to build something like this and get it done and did they just talk about it then no no they built it and they tested it on ethereum and on bitcoin and demonstrated real life code you can download today and run today the performance improvement that's what we bring to the table is our capacity to work with these people our capacity to read these papers and understand what's real and what's not real at our capacity to have a vision and propose a road map it's not charismatic leadership that's just good old-fashioned hard work putting in the work and if a cryptocurrency has to have the right to exist it has to earn that and it doesn't get it for free it doesn't get it because it's a name and you've proven nothing when you take someone else's code you copy that code you kind of put it into your client hope it works we are the only group right now that started from the very beginning building a client from scratch we could have very easily hired some rust developers or go developers fork geth or parity started from there as a basis and had 60 70 percent client representation there were already people doing that that was etc dev we took the time and spent a year and a half in the public domain building a client from scratch demonstrating that we knew how to do that demonstrating that it worked with both ethereum and ethereum classic in a functional programming language scala there's no other team right now that has that pedigree that's currently here making decisions so this is directly to you the holders of etc the miners of etc the people who still believe in loving this ecosystem there are people here saying let's get sustainable let's get independent and let's have a vision let's get somewhere and let's do it with good foundations and let's do it with good funding and all you need to do is vote with your client so when mantis comes out soon we'd love for you to download that has a full beautiful gui it's called the luna wallet you guys are going gonna love it we've done a lot of work to try to make the performance better and we think mantis is the best client ever built for etc one of the best cryptocurrency clients ever constructed in the meantime between now and november we will put the time in to explain the things that we're doing and also talk about the road map and we'll do that as much as we can and we will try to work with the cooperative and other members of the community who have been honest and given us a fair shake and have tried to engage in a productive dialogue where and when it makes sense we will not participate in strawmen meetings that are already pre-set up to censor people or make efforts fail i've i'm sorry after two times getting burned after having people tell me they've heard enough from me after the duplicity of going to coin telegraph and coindesk uh speaking on behalf of the whole community blog posts about how the things we're doing don't correspond with the values of this ecosystem before we even actually propose something medium articles saying that the status of our proposals is unknown even though we told everybody it would come out on wednesday and it did come out on wednesday this is not how people who come into an ecosystem trying to help an ecosystem should be treated because you know what the dap developers will be treated this way the token issuers will be treated this way and they're not as patient and they have no legacy or emotional investment in this ecosystem so they'll simply just leave and go to polka dot or to tasos or to eos or to ethereum or to ethereum two or to the 500 other options that are pretty good such as cardano in the ecosystem and then where does that leave you another four years of no growth another four years of no progress and the difference is the hash rate will fall so low and the price will fall so low that people won't even remember the coin and care about it if you want that to happen stick with the existing incumbent leadership and structures they're built to deliver that if you want something new and different then i encourage you to participate in this process starting with the you understand ability let's start there and next week tim and kevin hopefully others will help moderate and put together some beautiful great meetings where we can show off what we've done and we'd love for you to come and ask questions about how does it work and what does it mean then we will put in the work to try to discuss how these things can be put into the other clients and if those developers of those clients want to work with us and ask questions we're happy to do that or they can just completely ignore us okay then eventually we'll write some philosophical documentation and try to talk around what does code is law mean to us and where does code is law take us and how are the things that we're proposing compatible with coda's law it's the burdens on us and the others proposing about how these massive changes to the system are compatible with the underlying philosophy that people signed up for and at the end of the day you the user do the comparison you'll see the work we've done and the proposals we've made and you'll see the work others have done the proposals they've made and you vote with your client download and install the client that fits your values and what you feel is best for the ecosystem okay if we have enough threshold then let's do it with mantis if we don't there's still the option of a burn where we split the community and we run with a new system that has a set of people that are 100 in agreements with that and we can leave behind the group of people that want to live like the last four years and keep that going and go nowhere okay sometimes you have to do that as a community because there's just irreconcilable differences and we'll set a threshold there too and if we can't get a certain level well then these ideas just won't be adopted in atc and we spent the money and time to upgrade mantis and get this option and write these ecips and do these meetings and at least we tried and then i can leave the ecosystem with my head held high and say well i gave everybody there a choice and an option they didn't choose to go with that option but at least we gave them that choice because right now you don't have a choice right now you don't have any leadership right now you don't have a roadmap or a future or a legitimate argument of how are you going to navigate 2021 and 2022 my belief is that to compete with choice someone else has to offer it so even if we fail in this roadmap my hope is at least something will materialize out of it that will give sustainability to etc and a future to etc if that doesn't happen well it is what it is let's not go down that road vote with your client and i look forward to the meetings next week i really do they're going to be a lot of fun and you know what once we get the ball rolling and other people come in and they start hosting them for their solutions you know what happens you have a fertile dialogue we're going to learn a lot you guys are going to learn a lot and whatever is written today in the ecip process will will definitely change and iterate week by week and get to a much stronger form that ultimately will definitely solve problems one final thing it's a great paper that i read recently from the mit sloan school of management and it was written by todd aster michael morales don kiefer and nelson repenting and it's called what problem are you trying to solve an introduction to structure of problem solving it's about 40 pages long give or take and it's a really good analysis on how problem solving is done and how to think about solving problems and describe problems write problem statements and so forth we use a lot of the techniques and principles from this paper in cardano for voltaire our voting framework and we're just getting started with that and we're going to be iterating month by month by month but i'd highly highly recommend that people read this paper it's free it's open it's available it's published out of mit and this is the type of dialogue we should aspire to have not descending to discord or writing medium posts or going to journalists and speaking on behalf of the entire community because no one does what we need to do is move to a process where we understand each other we understand the consequences of what we're saying we understand what that means for the philosophy of the system we signed up for and then we give people the ability to choose that's what we need to aspire to and push to and i have absolute confidence that there's enough people who believe in these things to get us there and i have confidence that we can produce something really great for the ecosystem okay so i look forward to next week thank you so much for listening and i'll talk to everybody soon
