hey everybody its Charles Hoskinson can everybody hear me alright make sure the game is up on my mic okay and let's go ahead and allow that okay so I should be on my Yeti mic yeah guys just let me know in the comments if you have any trouble hearing me other than that let's go ahead and get started okay so I'm traveling to South Korea tomorrow and I'll be there for a little bit and then after that I'm heading to Japan so as traveling is hard and Internet is sparse at times I figured I'd do an AMA for you guys before I run off to you know somewhere far far away and it's not clear when and how I would be able to do another one of these AMAs but I really do enjoy them I love the questions that I get and actually I get asked a lot of questions out-of-band so I mentioned in the title bonus questions so there's a few questions that people have pre asked that I'd like to go ahead and address first actually I should ask answer more than just card out a related question there i which k related question there's some lifestyle questions and questions about me and I figured it I'd be kind of fun to go into a little bit of that okay so the first question comes from a user in Germany who asked about how do I run a company travel hundreds of days a year and deal with all the stress you know what is what's the lifestyle like if it's a daily life of Charles and I had to think about how to answer that question for a little bit but I thought it would be cut a little fun so nowhere in my life history or how I was raised was I really prepared to deal with his dress I come from a family of doctors and they deal with it by becoming workaholics and getting gout and gaining weight and not exactly the healthiest of lifestyles and basically committed every sin you can as CEO I overworked over eight got gout at 27 and certainly didn't sleep enough and as I've gotten older and especially as I read more and more about lifestyle and health I really have started taking such things seriously you can only get gout so many times before you is that you're not getting any younger so a few things that I've started incorporating into my lifestyle they've really helped me and if anybody who actually wants to become an entrepreneur it's definitely something they should consider first off I went from a hundred and eighty pounds to two hundred and forty pounds so well over a hundred kilograms and I did that in just a four year period so I realized this trajectory was leading me to 300 pounds and I was probably going to keel over at fifty of a heart attack so I had to do something to manage the weight one of the biggest problems of weight management was the fact that I was never in the same place and never was the same cuisine at the same time so I was with this conundrum where even if I could commit to a stable diet it's really hard to commit to that when you're on a plane or in Vietnam or Korea or Australia or Africa it just everything changes so I read a lot of work from dr. Fung and he's a nephrologist up in Canada trained at UCLA and dr. Fung recommended intermittent fasting so I decided to bring that into my lifestyle about six months ago and I went from my peak 242 pounds to about 220 pounds so I've lost 22 pounds since I've done that and I feel a lot better the only meaningful change has been going from eating whatever to eating within an eight-hour window every day so I don't eat for 16 hours and then I eat for between usually 12 and 8 also I've been trying to get to a ketogenic diet so that's a diet mostly based on fat and protein and not much carbohydrate I and I've had varying degrees of success there it's easy to get into ketosis when you fast and I noticed much more mental clarity in fact the longest fast I've done so far I didn't eat for a week it was when I was over at University of Illinois urbana-champaign with the runtime verification team and they were quite generous in going to great restaurants while I ate nothing so I got to watch sushi and wonderful steak and barbeque being devoured and very Midwestern fashion while I enjoyed my water but that was a great experience the second thing I've incorporated into my lifestyle has been mindfulness meditation in fact I have a device that I bought which is really cool and I'll show you guys I've been using it recently and it's tremendously helped so this right here is something called a muse and I'm always a big fan of Technology but basically what it is is it electro cephalic graph and you put it on your head and it what it does is it can read your brainwaves and it connects to a cell phone application and basically what it does is it lets you know when you're at a calm state and when you're in an active state so it's a meditation aid that gives you a feedback loop of when you're calm and when you're not can that's one of the biggest problems when people practice meditation as beginners is they're not quite sure if they're doing it right and an instructor can't get inside your skull and let you know unlike a martial art where they can actually watch you do something they can't really know so it's really hard to find those moments of clarity whereas this device can get in your head and it's been a tremendous aid the other thing I've tried doing recently is isolation tanks there's it's called floatation therapy so you just go into a pitch-black completely soundless tank and you float in salt water that's denser than the water in the Dead Sea for 60 to 90 minutes and basically reach this beautiful state of calm in fact it's the most weightless you can be without actually being in space so since I started doing that I've noticed I've started sleeping better feeling a heck of a lot better and being a little bit calmer the final issue is the stress of being constantly criticized and attacked I kind of have sometimes a thin skin and you might have noticed on Twitter or reddit and nothing really prepares you for that and I used to being in an environment where I had close personal relationships with people and unfortunately as I've become an entrepreneur and more globally known I don't really have those close personal relationships with most people who follow me and I've noticed that there's a profound lack of empathy and a profound lack of understanding amongst the general public when things aren't going their way especially as the price of cryptocurrencies go down so it's been it's been a bit difficult to deal with with that factor the emotional factor of how do you deal with constant criticism every day but I found that as I meditate and I found that as I get older it's become easier and easier to deal with these things and also having a good team of people around you really helps a lot so those are some lifestyle changes that I put in and they've certainly helped me a lot and I feel a lot better and I think maybe I can do this job a bit longer because of it and I'd recommend any entrepreneur do that but you know there's actually a lot of great lifestyle blogs and podcasts Tim Ferriss has some really good ideas as does Jill Rogen with his guests that can constantly come on and I've read some great books like stealing fire and another book called how to change your mind from Michael Pollan so there's there's certainly great literature out there and if a person actually wants to focus on this topic there's a wealth of great resources as with all things do your own research and I am NOT a doctor so you know proceed with caution and care and requisite professionals but at least that's what works for me I'll continue experimenting and I'll periodically let you guys know if it's working you probably can tell if I gain weight or lose weight if I look healthier or not so healthy based on that so there's a great trial and error at least for me final point I found especially doing a lot of research and talking to a lot of doctors that there's a just a tremendous amount of good research saying that if you get your gut right it helps you I suffer from acid reflux and a few food allergies here and there and I've noticed when I take probiotics and prebiotics and I try very diligently to get my microbiome where it's at I feel a heck of a lot better and especially mentally I have a lot better so there's some books like the good gut and grain brain from dr. Perlmutter others that talked about this a lot and I'd highly encourage anyone who's having health problems especially immune problems to maybe spend some time on their on their immune system their microbiome because that very least probably can't hurt you and might actually provide some help for me it provided a lot of help especially given the cuisines I deal with so that's how I deal with stress of rot to be a good company now actually it's kind of interesting thing if you look at Elon Musk one caveat to being an entrepreneur and running a company is it super important to have people in your organization who can say no to you and can say maybe you should try something else if you're King and you live in a basically a cult of personality and you have lots of people that boost you up you know you may have lower stress because you think everything's going your way but you're prone to amplify the mistakes that you make and if you look at the governance of Tesla for example the early aren't many people around Elin who can say no to him or say maybe you shouldn't have send that tweet or something like that the advantage we have in AI which K is I have a co-founder with equal power Jeremy would both over the same amount and his job is to be a professional critic so a lot of decisions I make least go through him there's a kind of a sounding board there and we have layers in the company where things take time to percolate if I really want to do something I have to push pretty hard to get it done and there's a lot of pushback so I'd highly encourage people to create these types of environments because they avoid echo chambers and they really get you into the mindset that you are flawed and you can make mistakes and your first try is seldom the thing that you end up doing okay so there was another question I got out of the UK and it's one that I'd like to spend a little bit of time on and it was about peer review so there's a perception that peer review slows down the development process and that in this hyper-competitive cryptocurrency space that somehow if we involve this process oriented very disciplined way of doing things that will somehow miss out on great opportunities and will somehow miss out on our ability to you know catch ahead and beat the incumbents in the marketplace and there is a certain degree of truth that you know in the tech space if you move too slowly you're gonna get clobbered but I think it's incredibly important to differentiate the development of software from the development of protocols and scientific endeavors protocols don't come along very often you know you see the big ones every now and then you have like the BitTorrent sand the tcp/ip s and so forth and when they come out they have a profound influence and they end up getting adopted and used you know things like PGP been around since 1991 and it's still used I have millville Oh a lot of people use it so you'd have to ask yourself okay why should we then constrain the development of something that could be around for decades to the same forcing factors that we would look at with a cellphone application or with a web application you know in one case it's all about market share and it's all about experiences and Minimum Viable products and getting things out as quickly as possible and in the other case it's all about saying I'm leaving something behind that potentially my grandchildren might actually be using as developers and if I screw it up every mistake I make they're gonna have to live with because of legacy reasons and momentum and so forth so we differentiate between those two aspects at i/o age came on the software side we have not done a great job but moving as quickly as we need to move and we're constantly vigilant of that we have competing teams and occasionally some get ahead of the others and that gives us a lot of lessons on how we need to refactor and reform our processes and it's a big focus of ours for the second half of the year is to ask ourselves how do we write faster more collaborative more open software in a more agile way and this is part practice part a science part opinion part objective and there's a lot of do's and don'ts there but on the science side on the protocol development side really you start with a great team and that team is composed of people who've been doing that for a long time and they've made big mistakes and they've seen big mistakes and they're real good at literature review and they're real good at borrowing from their competitors and from other teams and then you build in checkpoints that allow you to review if what you're doing is correct or not or if you've actually solved the problem or not and there's many types of checkpoints there is the peer review checkpoint there's the formal specification checkpoint there's the prototyping and there's actual deployment in industry checkpoint and then viewing what competing protocols can accomplish so as with all things it's really hard to build a team that can move quickly when you have to move in a very methodical way and we've been inspired from companies like Microsoft Research and from DARPA and other think tanks about how to actually move quickly yeah well we're at the same time preserving our principles it's obviously imperfect but actually if you look at the productivity of the or borås team as the case study or the Plutus team as a case study we're moving as faster faster than our competitors in fact in our opinion we feel we're ahead of casper and in our opinion we feel that our PL group is producing some great work where we're slower and we need to speed up is on the translation from the prototype into production and into our systems our release cycles are just simply too long our QA process simply takes too long and we have some project and product management failures there that we will focus on and we'll overcome but reality is that we're relatively new company and you know a lot of these things have never been done before and quite in the way we've done it we operate 16 countries we're very decentralized and there's a price to that and you have to kind of learn a methodology that can work in these new types of environments we don't have the luxury of a really tightly focused Silicon Valley startup but on the other hand we do have the luxury being able to hire the most brilliant people because we can hire pretty much anywhere it turns out when you're a solvent you can go live in Bali and find gainful employment whereas you can't simply do that if you're your average college critter so I don't think we're slowed down but I do think we can do a better job the other thing is that I don't think there is as much of a rush as people realize as we see with the contraction of the marketplace as I mentioned my prior video the market is coming back to a normalcy coming back to rationality you cannot go from $250 Bitcoin to $20,000 Bitcoin where the foundations the fundamentals of the space haven't materially changed too much and then have an expectation that that's a stable equilibria it's going to go back down and there's going to be a recession and we cans are going to come out and what's going to happen is the same thing that's happened anytime you have a contraction in a very exciting marketplace the people who really believe in the technology and the people who really believe in what the technology can do for Humanity stick around and they continue to work hard if not harder because now they have more scrutiny and now they have more demand on them and less resources to work with and the people who are just in it for a quick buck they tend to disappear into the ether so just like the dot-com collapse I feel that our industry is much the same way now the advantage of this increased scrutiny is that we're gonna have really strong conversations about well how should we as an industry write protocols in where have we done a good job and where haven't we done a good job as with projects like Avalanche the stellar consensus protocol tender mint snow white these types of things I've been fairly impressed with the progress the process the methodology the blending of open source kind of bizarre style philosophy with the cathedral style peer review philosophy and for the most part actually I think that the protocol development of our space is actually pretty good not from the big guys but from the smaller guys and there's just a heck of a lot of cool innovation and interesting things going on so there's a lot of great case studies learn from there but it's important understand that to build a good protocol is about a three to five year endeavor we've been working on or Boris for about three years now and we're just now starting to see the real fruits of our research agenda and these fruits will allow us to move and give ourselves finality when we need it to give ourselves sharding through our Bors Hydra when we need it to really understand the needs of the network stack and then how we actually add side chains into that maintain the state of many systems concurrently or being able to move value between many systems to build up to those amazing applications that everybody wants to have does require really years of effort solid foundations good proofs and a large amount of missteps and we've gone through a lot of that so while the protocol development of our space is getting better it is important to understand it's a long haul and it does take quite a bit of effort bitcoins been around for nine years and we're just starting to see some goodies coming bitcoins way and then it'll eventually get there and it's gonna be a big change for the space so peer review good doesn't slow us down protocol developments different than software development don't confuse the two but they do need to be done concurrently if you're actually gonna build a production system okay one final question there has been some go back and forth about my credentials and this is always a fun topic so Jackson Palmer the dogecoin founder mentioned and people scour my LinkedIn page which by the way is incomplete so while I did graduate I did not finish a PhD and when I retire I probably will go back although I'll study different things at the time I was interested in a field of number theory called additive number theory and I was really interested in why integers change under addition so there's all kinds of interesting things like sieve Siri and so forth that give you great algorithms to study these things and understand these things both from an applied theoretical standpoint that type of research has almost nothing to do with the cryptocurrency space or software engineering or protocol development so I'm willfully unqualified to do those things which is why we have a very talented chief scientist professor aguilas gaseous and we have people like phil Wadler and duncan Koontz and others on the team who do that work because they've demoted near lifetimes in the case of wadler or at least decades in the case of Duncan towards those ends the the reality about research is you no matter what your credentials happen to be you need to have three characteristics to be successful one you have to fail you have to repeatedly fail if you're very young and you get successful early on that's a horrible thing because you start believing you can't fail or that there's something special about you the reality is that no matter who you are where you come from or how smart you are you're going to make mistakes and it's not about whether you can avoid mistakes or not it's about what you do when you make them and what you learn from them and how you grow from them second you have to be able to work in a team environment research is a team sport there's 10 people working on or Boris they come from different universities different weeks of life some are more mathematically oriented some are more work horses somewhere idea people who don't like writing things down but come up with profoundly amazing ideas but you need that team and you need that team to actually work together and third you need to be able to shamelessly borrow from your competitors because they come up with brilliant ideas - in some cases much better ones than you so that's credential free and you don't really need credentials to get there and to do that but domain expertise usually is milestone that way in particular in the development of cryptographic protocols it's one of the best ways to get those skill sets so we do build research teams and most of those research teams do hold PhDs but we tend to look at their publications we tend to look at the things that they've done I will remind people that Bram Cohen I don't believe has a PhD but he won the best paper award at Euro Crypt we were at the same conference and we did not win that so there really are some amazing people out there but I'll also remind people Bram has been at this game for a very long time and he's done some great things throughout his career including the invention of BitTorrent so anyway in the cryptocurrency space I which K is pretty neutral with credentials we don't really care whether you're a high school dropout or a world famous professor we care about whether you can make mistakes and learn from them you can work well in a team and you're also able to learn from your competitors and adopt those ideas that your competitors have into your own idea flow as long as it's reasonable and well sourced so those are some of the questions that that I've gotten there's a few more but now I'll get to your questions I just wanted to answer those so I haven't been paying attention to chat at all so I'll take a look at from the very beginning okay I'm see here alright Charles on reddit people have been talking about the actual function of a DES token can you please elaborate okay so a DES as a token you know it serves many different features so it has the traditional legacy cryptocurrency features that Bitcoin and cumbers which is it's a store value and you can use it as a means of exchange and it's easy to teleport around the world so that's a base load thing and as you gain more population and more utility around it as a payment system like for example of gaming and gambling came in or other such things came in that in itself would justify a very large capitalization and a large user base but as a proof of stake system and one that intents on having governance and Treasury put an ADA also represents other dimensions as well as being a computation token so in terms of the other dimensions proof of stake requires some notion of who should be in charge to make the next block so there's many ways to hold these elections but the consensus with most proof of stick architects is this idea of saying your chance of winning is somehow connected to the amount of tokens you have or Boris is no different we follow a protocol called follow the Satoshi for the original or Boris and we have some slight variations of that for other versions but the basic concept is if you have 25% of the supply 25% of the time you ought to be elected or have the right to delegate that to someone else to make the next block and ideally you would care about making that block because you own money in the system and if you don't systems value goes down so that's the assumption that goes into proof of state whether you like that assumption or not that's where endogenous consensus comes from so that's the core of the system in that respect but then there's also this idea of having a Treasury and in 2019 and 2020 that's an idea we're gonna very rigorously pursue but basically we're going to connect voting rights to the inflation of the system so some of the inflation goes to the stagers but some of the inflation will go into a collective account and like - or other currencies people can submit ballots it's my belief that systems have to pay for themselves they have to be economically sustainable and if you embed a decentralized funding almost like an NSF or you know a DARPA into a cryptocurrency it bodes very well for diversity of thought and diversity of projects there's a lot of projects like for example raiden or others which it doesn't make sense to me to have a token or to do an IC o---- but they provide tremendous value to the protocol and it's really a shame when you tell people your only two options are to do something unnecessary for something to function and put a toll into it because that's what you do to get funding or to live in a patriot inch model where you have to go find out rich Lord and that Lord is going to take care of you and give you some money is then you're subject to the golden rule he who has the gold makes the rules so a treasury system is kind of that nice third option where you say hey I and my team have these brilliant ideas that can add value to the ecosystem whether those be marketing ideas infrastructure ideas payment systems credit card integration whatever it might be or could be technology and in you know we have caught time and materials we have costs to do these things so here's a grant proposal can the community vote on that second it gets people more engaged in the direction philosophy and focus of the platform when you own Bitcoin Bitcoin just does its own thing it's its own pretty protocol you really aren't as a Bitcoin holder no matter how much you have deeply engaged in the governance of the system unless you choose to be and you have to put a lot of effort to do that and it's very controversial whereas if you actually have voting rights connected to that then you'll see these funding proposals come up and then you have to ask yourself well what do I think where do I want to go where where should the system go is this guy who wants to put a thousand ATMs throughout Africa is that more valuable to the growth adoption of Cardno than the person who wants to create a Coursera class or the person who wants to do core development work or some firm that wants to do an elixir client or somebody who wants to do all of this software tooling for better smart contracts so you kind of have to ask yourself but with its finite pool of resources where should we as a community invest those resources to get the best adoption and return in the great part about having that covered sation whether you win it or lose it is that you're engaged and it gives the meetup group something to talk about it gives everybody who's an ecosystem something to talk about because it's gonna be a liquid democracy system you can eventually even have elections and basically have delegates and people come in and say I really trust Bob he's or I really trust Alice and I like her or I like him and that person reflects my viewpoints and opinions and that person is gonna go and care and get these things done so if we have any hope of moving from the patronage model or the beneficent dictator model or the you know he who has the gold model or the grace and goodwill of people's hearts model and moving into a self-sustaining model Treasury is the way to go and you need voting rights connecting it to the amount of tokens you have is another logical starting point there are things that can go wrong there and plutocracies not necessarily the best government so you have to think carefully long-term about how to humiliate that so it's the first step in many finally there's also this idea of computational fuel which is what aetherium pioneered basically pay-to-play you put some tokens in there's gas cost to do things and there's a nice model there and it provides a great way of creating a price point for certain types of utilities that the network can provide so outside of it just being a means of exchange in a store value these are the other dimensions that you can have and as a final point as we move into 2019 we're going to start ratifying or Cardinal improvement proposal process and we're going to providing systems in for people to vote on different sips as we start getting into more controversial things like how should we do quantum immunity for the system or should we harden the privacy primitives in the system with the understanding that this is probably going to start reducing liquidity at particular jurisdictions where heart and privacy primitives are less than welcome on centralized exchanges and these are decisions I shouldn't unilaterally make or the Cardinal foundation should make these are ultimately decisions that the community should make your amount of tokens should be connected to those types of decisions so ADA represents many different things and when you build things on top it will represent even more than what I thought it is but it's a pretty diverse token okay is hollow chain a competition to card on oh you know hollow chain is kind of like a decentralized app framework and it's got kind of an interesting idea that an avalanche and hash graph and these other guys are kind of talking about this concept of I keep local private consensus my own local state of things it's almost like get where you have your version of reality and Bob has his version of reality and then there's some way that through hash chain or something you can reconcile that so they throw on a DHT and then they have to have an immune system and then there's specific logic for each person's application and actually I think hollow chain and avalanche and these other things really focus more on I'd say probably the IOT space or space where you're talking about frameworks of frameworks as opposed to a particular cryptocurrency competitor I've you Cardno more as a financial operating system it's something where we can go to Ethiopia or to Rwanda and say hey insurance and credit and stocks and these things aren't working out so well for you guys and you know maybe the government's not the most trustworthy source to get it done so would you like an alternative that you can use without permission and you can use that to get capital and use that to have trustworthy business between each other we solve just that problem it's a trillion dollar ecosystem where things like hollow chain and avalanche and others you're saying well you need a coordination or management layer for all these applications and devices and there's billions of them eventually and it's not clear what the economic model is going to look like you know when you talk about deploying infrastructure as IBM or Sony used to be that that was multi-million dollar infrastructure and it came with service contracts on a long tail so you bought the mainframe computers but also you'd pay for 20 or 30 years to maintain them well we talked about sensors these sensors are very low cost or bundled in but they have ongoing tail costs that are associated with them and it's not clear who should pay for that or even though they provide a huge amount of societal value you know for the farmer is knowing what the moisture levels are the temperature levels are on the field and so forth so there's a lot of people who are thinking about projects of how do we create a coordination layer on top of this stuff and then you can hook your things in and then we can find a way to make these devices self-sustaining you through some sort of token ah mcc's so there was a great paper written by IBM called adept yeah and they were using telehealth Aryan blockchain back and I think it was 2015 to study IOT and I'd encourage people to look into that paper and I see things like hollow chain or avalanche is kind of a natural continuation of that line of thought but with different ways of handling consensus at the moment I think the most evolved and best protocol in that class is Avalanche and Team Rocket's really done a great job there but there's certainly a lot of people that think about that private going public type of consensus the third model okay let's see what else we have here how do you feel about the huge crash in price you know as I mentioned before prices go up prices go down and these things are always painful but you don't look at the day or even the week when you're a fundamentals guy if you're a day trader you don't even care about fundamentals you don't care who's in charge people day traded Apple stock when Steve Jobs was there and people day traded Microsoft stock when Bill Gates was in his heyday at no bearing on the price reality you look at signals and events and other things and then you try to predict how will these signals in these events impact the price when you're a long-term investor and you say well what is the long arc going to look like you then look in the macro and you say okay well what drives adoption what collections of technologies are necessary for this to be useful who's going to use this stuff and then when you weigh all those fundamentals your horizons are much longer three years five years 10 years 15 years 20 years and so forth so I don't think much about it on a day to day basis I know how painful it is for people especially people came in later than others but you know crypto is crazy and it's been crazy for a really long time what really bothered me is that people would copy and copy and copy the same thing hold I SEOs raised hundreds of millions of dollars off of extremely dubious claims prices would go way up because the market was kind of anomie to style and then the people who ended up getting hurt from that were the poorest people who had the least sophistication so when I see things like that I think we as an industry need to do better exchanges need to do better by having more stringent listing standards community leaders and crypto leaders need to be a bit harsher for a lot of these me two projects and you know we should remind people that there is no free lunch and nothing comes free easy or for free it's hard and it takes time and vision and effort for things to grow so I don't think too much about it but you know it is something we're all forced to contend with just because the price goes down doesn't mean people are horrible and people are scammers or bad actors and I fully empathize and I understand why people get upset and angry but remember you haven't lost anything unless you sell okay let's see what else we got here my dad asked what do you think about world peace he does not believe in people in the crypto space consider these issues you know I do think about this stuff and I do think about people in general and really society is at a difficult position human race lived in a very hierarchical tribal way and there was a privileged class for the longest time the kings the Pope's the presidents the generals basically the the top people and they got to see the board and everybody else had their little chunk of reality and their paradigm and they live within that and society was stable within that state assuming that globalism doesn't occur people don't travel too much people don't mix too much and people don't ask too many questions and somewhere along the way we had the Enlightenment people started asking questions and those control structures that eroded then there was some foundational questions about the governance structures so we ripped all the government structures up and the Kings went away and then we said well maybe democracy is interesting and other people said well no total tellurian ism is interesting or communism is interesting and it leaked its way in and then we had another vigorous debate in world wars and then the internet came out and all of a sudden we took what the Enlightenment had started in the printing press had started and we put it on the fastest acceleration in human history and over an arc of time we got to a point where no matter where you're born you could have access to more rich and verified information than a king in a prior time there's never been a time in human history where that's the case the problem is that our mental tools our cognitive tools and the way we think the way we act are products of Darwinism the products of evolution the products of of genes which were adapted for survival given a certain type of structure that we've endured for millions of years human beings aren't meant to see the whole board and when they do they have to put in control structures to protect themselves it's almost like staring at the Sun so one of the reasons why we're having phenomena like Trump and all this unrest and things are getting volatile and terrorism's around and inequality is exacerbated in certain places it is because we don't have the cognitive tools the social tools or the governance structures to deal with the consequences of instantaneous and infinite information we also don't have collective empathy to live in social structures of hundreds of thousands of people when you're in a tribe and you see your neighbors every day there's a regulation and your behavior there's a regulation and how you interact with people but you're on Twitter you have a hundred thousand followers or millions of followers you know for example you and musk was the smoking of pot on the Joe Rogan podcast the guy works hundred hours a week he's under enormous stress he has huge social pressures and he has experience profound success in his life and he's done amazing things that no one in the world can question and if you look at the arc of things he's doing a pretty good job the problem is that he's run into a situation where his ambition has outpaced his ability to execute and so when you're under that much stressor as a single human being with the weight of the world on your back you need to relax you need the unit laid back so from what angle you say I'll finally this guy is starting to chill a little bit he's probably mentally gonna get to a better state and that's gonna allow Tesla to have a better probability of success but then people can meaningfully look at the other side of it and say he's cracking he's breaking in public this guy's falling apart that in the pedo comment the funding secure comment let's now begin the politics of personal destruction and create a mob to burn him to the ground and get him fired from his job why what is it your business the vast majority of people criticizing him or having an opinion on him are not in his tribe have nothing to do with his success one way or the other and social media has created this reality where we have an empathy gap and I think that's one of the greatest threats to the semblance of world peace is a lack of understanding of each other well we live in a paradox of never before in human history have we had more information and more access to things than we've ever had before we are more close in silo'd than we ever had before we live in a concert at confirmation bias world for example if you believe that vaccines cause autism there is absolutely no scientific reasonable evidence for that I'm sorry it's just not true there's no evidence for this there may be a million factors that are causing it we can even meaningfully say perhaps cellphone radiation has something to do with it or overuse of antibiotics destroying people's microbiome there's more scientific evidence for that in that studious there was one paper and the guy who wrote it got burned alive at the academic state cuz he lied yet there are people who wake up every day and believe this and they only consume material that validates the worldview and you know if I look at it from an objective outsider and I have this much versus this much saying something you'd say well there's overwhelming evidence that this thing is true versus this thing yet we live in silos so we only tend to consume things that we want and there's no greater example of that than the fake news phenomena if you don't like Obama or you don't like Trump you tend to consume anti Obama or anti Trump news and you tend to ignore the Pro stuff now add these modern tools together and people get more and more and more entrenched in their ideology you know and we never actually start thinking above the problems like for example for a hundred years governments have been using GDP as a measure of human progress the very fact that your economy can produce more or certain people have more and no way determines whether that country is a good country to live in there's plenty of people who live in China who are not doing well or Saudi Arabia we're not doing well for that matter the United States we're not doing well yet they have high GDP s so there's other measurements like HDI for example that are a bit more Galit Aryan and they have a bit more representative sample of perhaps the quality of life for people why aren't we talking about adopting better metrics because the old metrics are politically convenient to push so the broader topic World Peace really stems to understanding can people understand each other do we have tools to communicate with each other and are we willing to be uncomfortable and our dialogues the excoriation of jordan peterson is a great example of where we're not prepared for that people either love him or hate him but at the people who hate him will go to any lengths to validate beliefs that just simply are not true they'll say he thinks a certain way says certain things if you watch interviews you see some of these people and you say are we watching the same video or are we watching the same person talk because they'll write an article based on a video they watch and it had absolutely nothing to do with reality but somehow they're cognitively in a position where this is just the way they perceive reality so where does Krypto fit into all of this well Krypto is intimately connected because Krypto is connected to the core roots of society it's connected into control and into wealth and into governance and it's connected into how should we relate to each other there is nothing more meaningful than markets to your lifestyle if the markets work well you can eat if the markets work well you can better yourself if the markets work well you can buy a home and not freeze to death if the markets don't work well you're gonna be worried that your neighbors are going to eat you that's just a reality and so the things that can connect these things and allow us to build better marketplaces are pivotal to building better societies and for us to better understand each other and Krypto touches at the core of that because it talks about how private transactions need to be how complicated two transactions need to be who are the gatekeepers why do we trust them why do we trust these assets and so forth this is why I'm in the space because I believe this technology if it's properly applied is one of the core pillars that we're going to need to use to get the world to be a better place it's not the only one we're gonna have to somehow figure out how do we as human beings live with a world where everybody's connected and no one ever forgets and people you've never met conform mobs to destroy you for fun for no reason get you kicked off and you can't make guardians of the galaxy 3 or get you fired from your job because of a tweet that you said 5 years ago or something like that how do we live in a society where that's seemingly okay or a society that cannot forgive generation ago it was okay to make mistakes in this generation if you're on the wrong side of the political spectrum and you make mistakes you're gone so we need better tools for dealing with that we need better cognitive tools I'm a big fan of Dan Dennett he writes books like mind tools and other such things and he's done some great YouTube presentations he's a philosopher over at Tufts I think and you know I'd hope that people can develop those things and we also have to be aware of how flawed our thinking processes are and our cognitive biases or confirmation biases our inability to deal with statistics even if you're a trained mathematician it's very difficult so these things combined together I think can make the world a better place and also just be relaxed okay so what else we got here I don't think there's a ceiling in sight so CT guitar guy says but Alex at the blockchain space is getting the point where there's a ceiling in sight you know you have this urban flow I remember when I first entered space there was just Bitcoin and we had a lot of Forks at Bitcoin things were pretty stagnant so we had like coin and feathercoin and named coin in these things and so you take the name of the game was you take the github repo you fork it you change something you put some good marketing on it so like coin is the silver to pick coins gold and then feather coin comes out worth a copper to the silver right and that's where we're at and then suddenly you know this innovation comes out and says hey cerium and NXT actually got to give the NXT guys credit they were actually the first in my view major innovation and bitshares was pretty innovative too and so these new wave of things like bitshares and NXT and aetherium came out and then it got really interesting there and then all this new stuff came on the back of that and now we're entering the third generation so metallics right we've probably peaked on the second and we're getting crowded in that side of the space but the third generation is coming and it's super exciting because we're starting to see really serious discussions about where does the smart contract fit into the server and the client how do you do things off chain as good as this for their on chain do you really need a blockchain like we have an enterprise product coming out where we say we want to have a blockchain less blockchain and we want to do for data what bitcoin did for money and and so as fundamental assumptions are being challenged and but if you look at the investments the people that are in the space the creativity that's in the space it's overwhelming and if you look at the actual application the social problems it's starting to happen for example I was in South Africa I went to the townships outside of Johannesburg and I met a great venture called in dilute it's Zulu for house and in lieu is doing one of the coolest most creative things I've ever seen it's a simple idea but it's life-changing so these townships were post-apartheid artifacts and they would go and build these brick homes the ethos African government years ago and give the people a little bit of land and they're usually small homes maybe 500,000 square feet sometimes plumbing sometimes power sometimes not but they have a little bit of land there so what in lieu does is they come in and say hey we're gonna go build an apartment building on your land six to eight tenant apartment building they only cost about thirty thousand dollars to build but it follows really good construction standards and I'll even post some pictures on Twitter they're really cool buildings in anyway they have like an Airbnb style app people can rent it out for as little as $80 a month up to about $250 a month so very low rent for these people and what they do is they give 10% of all of that to the homeowner for five years and then after five years they let the homeowner keep it it becomes their property they own it completely outright and they can never go cash flow negative now they've already built ten of these things and they're just gangbusters popular like a little hundreds more so they came to us and they said hey we want to do a blockchain project and I was very cynical I said oh let me guess you want to do an ICO and this and they said no no no no no no don't even want a token I'm not even thinking about that maybe later on we can have that discussion to do a co-op and have the homeowners actually own the company but what we care about is Land Registry because then you go in these townships when they sell their property they don't tell the government they just shake hands hand piece of papers that here you go now you own it so if you're actually trying to reconstruct history sometimes you have to go ten years ago and through our old traditions they who bought what from where and you have to rebuild the whole registry the government doesn't know what's going on doesn't care so they said can we build a blockchain base registration system credentials some of these townships have over 30% unemployment 30% and all the time when you're building something people come up to you and they say hey I'm a plumber or I'm a Mason or I'm an electrician or I'm just a laborer I'd like to do some work for you and you say prove it and they say well I don't really have a credentials and I have agree I don't have any certificate but I've done it for ten years so they said can we build an identity management system and build a credentialing system so when people work on these projects we can have a reputation system and know which local Masons are good and which local plumbers are good and so forth that's the magic of blockchain technology is it solves problems like that so when Vitalik says something like oh well this super crowded in there you know we're at a ceiling and we can't grow any more it's like we have yet to solve that one ventures problem which is the same problem that billions of people throughout the world have so maybe we've peaked in terms of a trillion dollar market cap for the moment and you know I SEOs aren't going to raise for a billion dollars anymore but we sure as hell haven't solve into loose problems and by extension the problems of billions of people throughout the world despite the fact the technology that we're building this space can solve their problems but then you say but Charles well but that doesn't have a token so what does that mean to ADA or what does that mean to ether these other things well guys the minute that we get them into a digital system those assets can now be moved into public Ledger's and back once you have a credential identity system you have everybody in the township registered those people for the first time ever can get insurance and loans and they're not going to get it from AIG they're not going to get it from JPMorgan Chase it's going to be a peer-to-peer lending system probably on a public network and they have a digital identity that is compatible with our system so to get to the next generation we have to solve that we have to find ways to connect to these real life problems these real life ventures and you know actually connect these guys to our systems and then once we've done that they'll do the rest because they don't have to ask for permission they're hungry they want to work hard and they're ready to go it's our job to wire them up though and get them into the system and to find ways to solve real life problems so I don't think Silicon Valley like I don't spend much time there I think the bubble there is quite counterproductive to good things I go to the townships and I go to Rwanda and I go to Ethiopia and deal with coffee farmer because we can find a way collectively to get millions into these systems we will see trillions of dollars of wealth created as a result of new people participating in the economy and the vast majority of that wealth will not touch banks it will not touch the legacy system it'll touch the crypto system so that's the next generation also in terms of the science the protocols are just getting so much better there's a lot of great ideas that were seated in the 2013 s and 2014 which are just now starting to reach the light of day so I I frankly disagree with the assertion that our best days are behind us I think our best days are ahead of us and I see how hungry people are okay is the 3d modeling in the eye which case set a precursor to your work in VR you know I get questioned a lot about what is the point of design and I which Kay you know we're almost like a three-legged stool you know two legs everybody gets there the engineering leg in the science leg but then we have this third leg design and people say well why the hell do you have that why why do you pay all these designers why do you have guys who understand 3j s and WebGL and these things what why do you care about VR and they are the reality is that everything we do on the paper side and on the code side is boring and dead you know if I print something out it's a dead tree if I write some code it's spent electricity and 99.9% of people don't care about it can't relate to it can't understand it and it means nothing to them if you took the world's best video game and you just gave somebody a paper printout of all the source code of it how do you think that average person would relate to it they would say this is this is what is this this is just paper with stuff on it you compile the code you run the code oh they can see it they can interact with it they have a great experience they say wow this is incredible so to us very early in our company's history we felt it was very important for us to give a certain group of people within AI ohk a mandate to imagine and dream and build experiences even knowing that this is going to take a lot of time and a lot of effort and we have to get really creative second I wanted to have common projects that unified my entire company you know if you look at our front page we actually have something coming out on Monday think you guys are gonna like a lot but if you look at our front page you know we have these graphics these animations like symphony of blockchains and the complexity is beautiful and the decentralisation graphic and more to come but those are built collaboratively throughout the whole company it unifies the project manager the QA people the release people the marketing people the comms people the scientists the engineers myself well there is nothing that everybody works on except for those types of things because everybody can have an opinion about an aesthetic about a font about a color about a lighting effect and so forth so if anything just to get people to talk to each other within the company it's tremendously valuable to build up a great culture but more importantly it makes what we think about and do much more accessible to the mainstream public for example when we came up with the idea of symphony of blockchains we asked a very foundational question what should a blockchain sound like I have no idea you know and it's a fun question to ask you think well hang on a second here it's code it's it's a data structure it doesn't have a sound it's a yes and planets shouldn't have a sound but NASA can target something towards one of them and you can get some audio from it so it does have a sound go figure so there should be a sound for a blockchain and if there isn't one let's invent a world where there is a sound for a blockchain then everybody can have an opinion about that and then you start asking questions like well what should we concern ourselves with maybe transaction throughput or maybe mining should be louder than proof of State because work is being expended what's the mempool to to it you know does the signature scheme we use have any impact on this and in the process of asking those questions people start understanding blockchains in a very different dimension they look at them in a very different way they start saying wow these things are a lot more elegant and complicated than we thought and there's a lot of nuances here and they start caring about the nuances because there's an end goal there there's this end goal of Sen can we create a symphony from these sounds now that takes a lot of work it takes a lot of effort and then when you would have the sound then you start asking well can we bring it into different spaces it's right now on the computer it's right now on the desktop but could we create a reality where we can put this into VR or AR and then we can go take it on tour and go to the Guggenheim or some gallery and then suddenly a group of people 50 60 years old who look at Picasso's and thunk offs every day who don't give a about our space are now looking at our space as if it's the most amazing thing they've ever seen that brings new people in and it gives people better ideas and they start asking questions about why are you doing that and then sometimes you say I don't know and in the process of saying that you learn something and then you go back to the drawing board and say god there's something we never thought about so I learned studying mathematics that it is exceptionally important to create conditions where you have different ways of looking at the same model or the same problem you could look at an object and say I want to prove it has certain properties or you could create an anti object and smash it together with that object and that anti object should have the opposite of all those properties and if the two things collided you create a plane which they should balance out what matter in antimatter now you could either go to the front door and boringly prove all these properties or you could imagine what such an anti object looks like and how to combine these two things together they both solve the same problem one is more elegant than the other so in the same way design is built into the DNA of AI ohk and we do care very deeply about these things we're not moving as fast as I would personally like because it takes an enormous amount of time to find designers and train designers about how block chains work and cryptocurrencies work and to get people actually rolling but you'll see a little by little we've actually massively improved a lot of our animation quality and now we're actually starting to getting to the RNA R and I think we're gonna have a huge sea change exiting this year and going into 2019 and that's the part of the company I have the most fun with and it's the part of the company I love the most because it's just an endless well and it's something we can really enjoy I'd also hope that many people copy that and it inspires consensus and all these other guys to say hey we have some surplus money and we have all these brilliant people why not instead of giving it to try to get some guy in Dubai to like us or to do another pilot we go and do some design stuff and if they start doing that by ripple effect many people in the space watch you take these things more seriously and that's what's going to get us from being cool things that nerds care about the printed source code on paper to that beautiful video game that millions of people can play and it's gonna bring a lot more people into the space okay well there'd be a coin burn for ADA okay I'll I I always answer this question because it's just such a great question whose coins are you going to burn hey once you answer that for me then then I'll take the question seriously but I get it all the time that's great man when mobile wallet actually that's a great question too so I you know we chose Haskell and Haskell has just been a mixed bag it's been great and it's been a nightmare at the same time and at some point I threw in the towel I say okay let's diversify development a little bit so we created a Russ project called prometheus and we ended up creating the card on a rest wallet and the code is up on github and the first product of that was Icarus which gave us a Chrome extension and now that's being built up by a mer go for your ROI now the reality of this rust codebase is that it has all the batteries included for a mobile client so if you wanted to take it and use it as the heart of a mobile client you can and then discussions with Nico the CTO of mer go they're gonna use just that thing but there's probably gonna be competition because it's it's like 50 60 % there you just need to put a front down and figure out how you're gonna do some things with that so mobile wallets are really gonna come and they're gonna come faster than you'd think and hardware wallets are gonna come as a result of this in fact I just found out surprisingly that treasure apparently is just waiting on a firmware update and we should actually have support with them and we're one for more update for ledger so in short order next three to six months we should see mobile experiences Hardware experiences coming out of the restaurant effort now haskell still our core and we're still doing a lot of work there and we've learned a lot as a company for it but sure is difficult ecosystem to write code in especially when you talk about interoperability you know rust is just so damn portable it works on everything and it's really easy to get it to work with web assembly or on mobile devices and haskell is just like that screaming kid you know in the store that throws a temper trimmin you have to drag them out by their foot to get somewhere you know it's it's a really difficult language to work with at times and it's very temperamental we've certainly learned a lot in the process and we'll get better at working with it and has huge upsides when it's working well but when it's not working well it slows you down a little bit so mistake we made early on was not diversifying some of the development processes but we've ameliorated that with the rest card on out side of things and we're scaling that team up and that team is seeing great acceleration and there's already some really cool things you can do with it in fact some videos are coming out for the one-year anniversary of car dotto to show you all the cool things that you can do and that team is one of our crown jewels how can you make sure exchanges are excluded from staking is it possible technically so technically no but it can be enforced by you the user so early on when we said hey hang on a second here our security assumption is if you own it you care about it there's a class of users who own it but don't care about it and those are exchanges in cloud wallets so if you take your ADA or your ether or your EOS or whatever the hell your token happens to be and you give that token to a third party and that token carries within it at that address certain rights what you have done is you transferred the token rights to that third party even if they're a custodian meaning that you still have legal ownership of the asset and can recall it the protocol has no native way of differentiating between you and that other user now you can dream up all kinds of things like well maybe we can put these in a smart contract or maybe we can have like two keys and you know you retain the staking rights but then they have it or something but the easiest way of solving it and you know there's Occam's razor simplicity is is usually the best way of doing things the best answer is just to create separate addresses so you have one address structure for everyday accounts that's what Daedalus will generate and when you send it from A to B you have that and they have another address Direction called an exchange address and you make them cosmetically different so people can visually see the differences between them and that address is omitted from stake rights so what happens is if you have a hundred Aida in the system that's all the ADA you have you know if you have ten ADA you'd normally say okay I have 10% chance of being elected to do something well if you send that over to an exchange address let's say that 10 ADA now there's just 90 in circulation so that tenant is as if it doesn't exist until it comes back to a regular dress because the blockchain you can track these types of things and you as a user know when you're sending stuff to an exchange address so what we can do is go to exchanges and say here's the api's for this here's how you generate them and here's how you do account management with them and then the users can self-regulate and say hang on a second here why am I not sending funds to an exchange address if I'm not doing that that means the exchange can mint with my money that's not good do I get money for that or they can offer their users an option like we'll delegate to the pool of your choice and give you some of the profits from that or something like that so that's step one step two is creating a carrot for exchange addresses to be used and so we've banded around a lot of ideas like for example transaction reversals within a window of time so you can create two keys as an exchange address you can have a spending key and a recall key and what you can do is you say if you sign with both you have instant settlement so as if you spent from a normal address but if you instead just spend with one the spending key you can build into the system the ability to reverse that transaction within a window of time say K maybe 12 hours or something like that and why would you want to do that because if you're in exchange the vast majority of the hacks that occur you detect within the first 12 to 24 hours so if you have a reversal you can reverse it quickly from the user experience it means they have slower settlement so when you pull your money out of the exchange it doesn't clear until 12 hours but it gives the exchange time to recover it also allows you to have a more efficient whole hot wallet storage where you can have everything being a hot wallet and then you have the recall keys and cold storage and then you have anomaly detection systems that run and if you see something you can pull those things out of cold storage reverse the transaction but if the user wants instant settlement they pay a slightly higher fee and you sign with vault keys you could do something like that with exchange addresses or even have discussions about things like proof of solvency and so forth and I think that as we get deeper down that rabbit hole of these types of addresses we're going to go more and more into those types of requirements in collaboration with exchanges and gathering their wish lists of requirements which will increase adoption of that address type which will create more incentive for people to behave appropriately and for those incentive schemes to be what they need to be so everybody has to have an opinion who's on the proof of stakes side whether they actually do address segregation or bonding or some other way of doing that but you have to have that because or otherwise you're just going to have a situation where 20 30 40 percent of your money in circulation is held by people who don't actually own it and therefore you can't make game theoretic assumptions about behavior so human-readable addresses are another interesting thing so it's very easy to do human readable addresses in that you can create a namespace where people can take an account let's say a family of public keys generated from an HD wallet and they can say for that family sequential indexed HD wallet I'm going to have a lookup table and say that's Charles's address and I could register such a thing and you could have a first-come first-serve but you still have to have some form of a route of trust behind that so one thing we've toyed with is this idea of friends with wallets so if you look at the social graph and you say ok Bob and Alice know each other and so what Bob and Alice can do is become friends and Alice can sign Bob's address and then Bob consent Alice's address almost like web of trust with PGP and then once you have that you can just drop down and say pay to Bob and you have a nice look up there and that can either be blockchain based or it can be out-of-band and the wallet can manage that or you can manage it from the blockchain and it's part of that metadata story behind addresses so that's the most obvious way of doing it and as we move towards considering things like privacy and kyc and AML especially when we start talking about security tokens in these types of things where such assumptions are made or non fungible assets like the ERC seven to one standard it's something we're going to think a lot about they're ours another way to do human readable addresses where you can say well we can represent addresses as keywords kind of like the bid 39 standard the problem is that if you do the math if you had a lot of words to replicate the same a level of entropy as a normal address so you have a huge MM multi-word addresses like 30 40 50 words or something like that I forget the calculation we did it awhile ago so that's a less fruitful Avenue I wish math just worked that way where I could give you 10 key words and that's my public key and then you can remember words instead of numbers and it's cognitively easier for people to do that so some sort of a count based friend system with a way of registering a family of address as a sequential index HD wallet is probably the best way in my view of doing a human readable address certainly making addresses shorter and as we move from random tune to sequential index HT wallets with Icarus will backport that at the Daedalus that's definitely a priority for us but moving beyond that it's important to be able to say okay I want to send money to Charles I want to send money to bitstamp I want to send money to coinbase and to have some sort of way of verifying well that is actually coin based that is actually Charles either because I call them and we did that together or we have some sort of root of trust that we can overlay into the protocol to do that or a reputation system to give us some sort of certainty and there's plenty of projects that run around that think about these things like you poured in others so it's a it's a fun thing to do and we're certainly going to get there soon can you explain the difference between Plutus marlow and yellow and the KETV I'm sure so you can break smart contracts and financial transactions into kind of two worlds there is the world of I am sending some notion of value between one factor or a group of actors to another actor or to another group of actors so there is a representation of that value there's the terms and conditions behind it they're the events to trigger it it's called contingent settlement there's a story about that that's a financial contract okay and you can have data feeds that go into it it can be completely deterministic it can be non-deterministic there's all these things you could have complex event processing going on it's it's a big story so when you think about that it's really a story about correctness it's really a story about is the intent actually reflected in code it's a story about efficiency of that transaction settlement time of that transaction and so forth that has really nothing to do with this idea of throwing away Amazon or Rackspace or this common notion that we have with gaps so what we decided to do early on would say let's differentiate between when I want better finance and what I want to do something a little crazy like this whole idea of the DAP and when you do that differentiation you gain huge efficiencies because you can get much better security much better certainty much better care tee's of termination and correctness of behavior when you're dealing with domain-specific languages and more limited capabilities one of the reasons why is Satoshi limited Bitcoin script so Marlowe into a certain extent Plutus is about that notion that's saying I want to have very rich financial relationships and transactions between Alice and Bob or Microsoft and Google or Goldman Sachs and Chase I want to have an ability of writing down intent verifying the intent has been followed and getting fast settlement and knowing exactly where these things are going to happen and how they're going at and represent assets with arbitrary complexity and different notions of constatine ship behind those assets then there's a different world which is I want to write programs and there's a triangle for those programs there's the client that's what runs on your computer the server that's what runs on someone's server or servers multiple service to cloud and then there's the smart contract the DAP it's the triangle and so what we haven't figured out in the cryptocurrency space is what that triangle needs to look like for us to actually have an innovation so for example if you have crypto kitties should 100% of that run on aetherium or is it okay for a large chunk of that to run on a server and maybe we use aetherium as a verifier an auditor to make sure that there's a consistent state amongst two users but the actual game itself is conducted out-of-band and there's some notion of eventual settlement eventual consistency okay so what Yela and KVM are about is about following that model of saying I need some sort of replicated engine that I can deploy code to and the code is going to run and it's going to run in a security model where the output that I get I have a high degree of certainty - it's got storage network capacity you got some computation it's very expensive to utilize and it's not meant to replicate the entire application just a service whether that be random number generation or that be auditing that some computation has been done correctly so checking a proof of correctness there's a big story behind that and then you take that into that broader triangle and then you say okay what needs to run in a server and what needs to run on my client computer so that's the dap model now why yellow well because k and semantic space computation compilation gives us a path over an arc of time to have the best possible tooling to verify these types of programs are written correctly and also gives us the greatest chance to have interoperability with the largest set of languages Java C++ C Java Script Python Ruby closure there are so many programming languages and when you have this large spectrum of many many languages you know it's really unfortunate that you have to make hard decisions like well do I write the compiler for this language or that language well if you have a way of just saying right to semantics and K you can let those use your community's self support they just write the semantics once for their language they register the language on chain and now everybody has access to it so if you want Python you go to the Python community say go do this it takes a few weeks and then is here you get the advantage of having all this great new tooling so it's useful for Python itself not just for crypto currencies so there's a carrot there and then we all get to use that and if we ever update the virtual machine to yellow version 2 or version 3 you don't have to update the compilers because the semantics auto update with Romantic space complicated compilation so that's the difference between the two one is really all about I want to write bitter financial transactions and better assets and these types of things there's a whole family of thought that's what Marlowe is all about and to a certain extent Plutus and then the other side of it is all about I want to have a that service in that triangle to do something for my application which is going to run on your computer on a server or maybe even serve a list and it's gonna run on the blockchain and I want to have a rich environment where I can run that where we can have a meaningful conversation about maximizing the amount of tools and languages that I can use for that that's the initial difference between the two the secondary difference between the two is that they actually going to run on different Ledger's you see the advantage of having a two layer model is not yet your head two Ledger's you have unlimited Ledger's once you have a two-layer model because you have a base ledger to act as the conductor but you can always add another chair for the symphony you can always add another violinist you can always go ahead and add another cello if you really want to so along that same token it's trivial for me to have ke VM and yellow running in the same system and then maybe heõs or maybe something else so if there's a particular competitor who's done some great work and they're getting a lot of adoption I can bring that into my system and because we have better based protocols we can make an argument that it's faster cheaper and safer to be in our system that our competitor system and then we get ease of interoperability there it's easy for them to move over if anything just to have a layer of compatibility for a system because they can talk to each other potentially so that's why we chose that model that's why we chose that differentiation the heart of the system is about accounting and complex financial transactions the financial operating system but then we also have to permit rich computation because that triangle requires it now the client side we have data lists and that's all about having a decentralized app store so you can have one-click installation for all your apps and that's all whole can of worms and a fun can of worms to get into and then try to figure out how do we get that server into our system and how do we reduce the load of trust on that server that's called out source of all computation or verified computation and in some cases we have collective computation problems that's called multi-party computation so the other side of Cardno is about thinking more holistically about where how when and who they're gonna run my applications and what am I giving up for what I'm gaining it have a much more nuanced scenario than the replicated computational environment that aetherium has which is you add more miners you get more certainty the calculation was right but you don't get any performance improvement it's like having more and more people in the room working on the same math problem doesn't make you solve the problem any faster you just get more certainty that the problem is is correct especially if you have a desired time to finish it like 20 seconds or something like that okay see here do giraffes get a neck ache you know it's funny I was in South Africa we went on safari and I had this lovely female giraffe that actually followed our safari car all around and the safari guy he name was Alex he said all you know giraffes love potato chips I say sure it's really good idea to feed it's like no they absolutely love potato chips and it turns out that giraffes really really like potato chips so much so that they're willing to bend their head down and get into the car with it so I suspect they probably got a neck ache from that but great experience love giraffes okay are you gonna introduce ring signatures into cardano's so that they can be used the darknet to buy things that aren't illegal you know I mentioned this earlier about privacy primitives in the system so we think a great degree about privacy it's actually one of the sexiest research topics for graduate students and one of the sexiest things for cryptographers to publish things about you get great media you can go to all the right clubs and parties you get to go to DEFCON and say hey look I have something really cool three-letter agencies sometimes start reaching out to you and say hey would you like to do a presentation so cryptographers have a certain appreciation and love for anonymity and for privacy primitives and in the cryptocurrency space that's like taking that traditional hallowed place and putting it up on steroids and making it really cool so ring stick the cheers are an older primitive and they're used in Manero and other things and we could certainly add such a thing to card Atum where it gets really interesting is when you start thinking about holistic privacy systems so it's not just good enough to think about privacy in terms of link ability that's what we typically think about it's kind of like level one when you're starting to build out a privacy system so link ability is saying I have an address address a can I determine who owns address a is that Charles is that Bob and what level of certainty do I have and what you know facts and circumstances go into that then the next level is saying well maybe I can't necessarily link things but I can know who's using the network and if only like 35 people are using the network I might not be able via retic Lee to link it but you know I can do some other out-of-band things to winnow that set down to the one person who's using it because there's only one guy in my country who's using it okay so there's Network level anonymity as well can you office Kate the fact that you're using the protocol and to what level can you do that and we've seen things like dandy-lion and desires to run protocols over tor and things like that to try to get down that road then there is a mountain anima T so you know if I'm sending a transaction between Alice and Bob a and B can we office K how much was set like a financial transaction now why would you want to do that because again it creates a target surface you know if you're an observer you might not necessarily be able to link Alice to a and Bob to B but you can watch for large transactions and say boy a billion dollars worth of Bitcoin just moved that's probably something interesting now let's go look into that and let's do a bunch of forensic analysis around the metadata there to try to understand that so when you think about privacy to me it's useless unless you start thinking clearly about well how do you build an ecosystem of privacy around your system and then there's the environments that these things run in your computer your computer is notoriously swiss-cheesed if you're running Windows there are backdoors into it the underlying hardware there's a lot of very credible people who believe there are Hardware backdoors in that so you know you have to ask yourself who you trying to naanum eyes yourself from from the script kitty or the professional hacker it's probably possible to do that with good cryptographic primitives and good conduct from the state actor it's probably impossible to do that because it's a rigged game they have advantages that normal people don't have one of my favorite papers I have I've ever read was written where people were able to use a microphone well listening to changes in the frequency of a CPU to steal a private key for PGP key so they could sit at a coffee shop with a microphone listening to a computer that was encrypting and decrypting files using a you know keys and it just by listening to the subtle changes in frequency it could actually steal the key it gives you a sense of the level of sophistication in the level of creativity that people have come up with in terms of InfoSec and it's just always a war and it's always a the adversary is always very powerful and they don't play a fair game so when you think about privacy in that context it's also about well who do you care about if your goal is to hide from the government you're gonna have a very difficult life if your goal is to protect yourself in to anonymize a lot of your activities you probably can accomplish that was some best practices and so forth you know another thing is access control so you know if you have history you're probably going to want to know your history because you can't remember everything especially as your financial life gets more and more complicated and more interdependent a lot of things so you have to store that somewhere and so even if you have a perfect protocol that provides perfect privacy and everything's great and you have very secure environments to run these things then there is a back door which is you you are the back door so as a consequence how do you get access but no one else does how do you remember and so forth you know one of the things change my life is when I moved the last pass I tried very diligently to remember hundreds of different passwords and all these creative schemes and I say you know at the end of the day I'm just gonna go with LastPass and do two-factor authentication and this that and yes I'm trusting certain things but it's pretty good service and I think it's dramatically improved my personal security and I have a lot more control over it and it's made my life a lot better but I accept that I am giving up a little bit of privacy there and I also giving up a little bit of control there for that trade-off that I've made so privacy lives within that context of the backdoor you yourself have the environments that the systems run in the type of adversary that you're dealing with and exactly what are you talking about with the privacy is it linked ability is it the network or is it the amounts now getting to card ATO in particular this is a very controversial topic because the more private you make a system you have 70 year old lawmakers who love questioning Mark Zuckerberg and they're fun to watch I had Senate hearings and things like that who don't know their head from their ass for any of these things and somebody comes along like the FBI or the NSA and tries to convince them that you should have secret backdoors in crypto because that's the way the world needs to work and unfortunately every now and then those people end up passing laws or they end up passing regulations or they end up using soft influence to convince exchanges to de List or banks to blacklist and so forth so there needs to be a community discussion within Cardno and I think that's the first great use case a governance system is to have a discussion of how private should we be my scientists are geniuses they have long great careers they study things like the zero knowledge cryptography and they sure as hell get privacy and they've done things for the European Union and all these other guys they've worked for the military they've worked for a three-letter agencies every now and then there's a huge diversity and my organization with people who have great track records to think about that whole pie and to build great privacy experiences but at the end of the day we do not have the right to make such a foundational decision for the cardinal ecosystem because that decision will have an impact on liquidity and price if we go to private we probably will get de listed from a lot of exchanges especially in Asian countries if we go in the other direction we probably will be more palatable to governments and the price may go up but you have a Facebook style scenario where there's a back door in the system so it's a spectrum and what we can do as engineers and scientists is we can tell you the trade-offs and what the tech looks like how it's going to slow down the system what it's going to do to your latency to the transaction sizes and the societal trade-offs and say if we go down this road these are the consequences and the first great governance challenge I think is going to come is going to be about privacy it's sure as hell not going to be about scalability because at the end of the day you know our research gives us good trade-off profiles so we come in we say would you guys rather have X thousand transactions per second or X dozens of transactions but if you said more is better let's do that especially if the trade-off profile is very reasonable but on privacy there's no clear solution we could go with bulletproof stuff we could go with ring signatures we could put dandelion into the base protocol and by doing that massively enhance your privacy we could build special devices where you have plausible deniability just like TrueCrypt or these other guys where you know you can you can have alternative ways to decrypt things and so you could appear as if you don't even have the installed on your computer you can boot off a USB device into memory only and interface with your wallet this way there's a thousand ways we could approach this problem a thousand ways but and this is the big thing each and every one of those ways has an unclear scenario here's the last point about privacy imagine that you lived in Iraq in 1970 1975 something like that and the person comes up to you and says are you a member of the bath party you would say if you were yes why because that was how you got ahead during that time period you know there was a one stop show they had a monopoly on power if you're in the party you get to go to the good school you get the good job you get all the opportunities if you're outside of the good graces of the party your life pretty difficult fast-forward to post occupation Iraq after Iraqi Freedom and Bremer and Wolfowitz tea bath the country and they say are you a member of the bath party you say no I don't know anything about oh no no no I was one of the Opposition guys why because you potentially could be ineligible for going to the right schools or serving in government already have a very soft bias against you so the very same fact a piece of information has a historical art to it based on the facts and circumstances that you cannot predict in that in the beginning you would say yes and broadcasted everywhere the more you do it the higher and the food chain you get and then later on it's a liability for you same piece of information and the problem with secrets is once you tell them everybody knows it so it's very difficult to know how private things ought to be and who should have access and when should you tell people and so forth and so it opens up a broader conversation about minimum viable escalation of privacy there is no greater example of that in the financial world then kyc and a ml for example right now we have a very bad situation if you run a bank or an exchange somebody comes to you and says hi bitstamp or hi bit tricks or hi shape-shift I want to do business with you and they say great show me your passport or proof of funds or proof of residency give me a utility bill they have to collect that and it's information that's a liability for them because they hold it they can't do much with it and then if they get hacked they lose it and they get sued or go out of business from it or causes a lot of commercial harm and mistrust and then the government comes and says you have to weaponize that data against your own customers so you have to put in anomaly detection systems and if somebody's doing something that's unusual you have to file suspicious activity report so you take a normal commercial relationship and now an entity through regulatory Fiat because regulators don't have unlimited power or resources they delegate it to the financial businesses are now in a position where they have to spy on their own customer and hold something they have great liability for wouldn't it be a better world if you owned your own data and you could take that and put it into a warehouse that you control and only you can see then you can invite on a case-by-case basis auditors to come in and attest to the data yes I'm an American citizen yes I'm this age yes I paid my taxes they can sign that and then when you want to go do business with bitstamp you send the transaction to them it goes to pending and they play a game of 21 questions and they just ask whatever the government tells them to ask this transaction coming in where is it origin u.s. okay pull up the US library for the US library how much how many questions we have to ask what's the age of the person where's the location of the person it's they pay taxes the IRS sign off on that and once you get enough yes is the transaction settles and that's that there is no suspicious activity report there's none of these things there's no data custodianship that's a world we could live in within 10 to 15 years especially if we start billing parallel systems like with a pan-african strategy where they're just now entering the KYC world and they don't have to adopt the legacy system and that's a world that could kill the compliance officer in 25 years and save banks a huge amount of money and return them to service based businesses instead of adversarial businesses that are soft regulators over your conduct and behavior that's intimate to the privacy couldn't question because we could actually build in nuances to that system for example while you could own your data and that's anonymized we could build a back Dornan where if a sufficient amount of thresholds are met and a sufficient amount of actors agree we could de nota mais the data to a particular actor like a judge or a regulatory body the cryptographic primitives to do this type of thing do exist and they're becoming more nuanced so maybe instead of saying absolutely private total libertarian absolutely not private we're in China you could actually have a spectrum there and people could decide what that spectrum needs to look like and reasonable people can disagree so I think the privacy question of should card out of the X or Y is much more nuanced it needs to be a community discussion and it has to fit into the environments that cardano's going to operate in one of our big goals is to merge the permission to permissionless worlds together and have card on a run in a pan-african way we think that we can get hundreds of millions of users off that continent over a long arc of time and if we're doing that it has to be a system that replicates the functionality and expectations of the legacy financial world so it's not good enough just to be able to write the transactions we have to have a meaningful articulation about compliance about regulation and about privacy and if you you get the right base protocols then you can build a reality where you have competition you have a diversity of thought and over time you converge to something good the one thing we won't do at i/o HK is we won't be like ripple we won't put Ben lossky on our board we won't kowtow to whatever makes us the most money or gives us the best access because at the end of the day if I wanted to work in the legacy financial world I to just take a job at a bank the whole reason we build open protocols and open systems and we oppose things like bitlicense is because that's the 20th century that's a hierarchal world that's a bad world and that's the world that causes 2008 and that's the world that turns banks into spies on their own customers it's immoral it's wrong its unsustainable and it will collapse at some point we have a point in human history where we can either decide to double down on the past and become a very dystopian world where everybody gets a number on their forehead and if it gets too low you get kicked out of society and if it gets high you get the good life to a world where you're in control of your data you're in control of your money you're in control of the way you interact with markets it doesn't mean you can't do whatever the hell you want to do because when you do business with somebody they have a say on how you do business with them but it does mean at the end of the day at least you get a choice accepting the consequences of that choice so privacy fits as a component of that and it's something we do care a lot about at our company that's a good question can anything be done about people who get coin scam from them and have that transaction reversed you know we have this thing we've had of her very long time it's right here it's called cash see five dollar bill okay so it's funny that our grandparents and great-grandparents they grew up in a world cash is king and we all and they were just so attuned to this idea that if somebody steals your wallet breaks into your house they take your cash it's gone and so they build a lifestyle where they got very clever you know yeah I'm how to store it how to think about it and there's certain efficiencies with that then we move to this digital world the world of credit cards the world of bank accounts world of PayPal and then we just started building these consumer expectations of if identity theft happens or if somebody hacks into my account I can pick up a phone I can call somebody and somebody's gonna be on the other side of it to listen to my story hear me and make things right there's big cost to that there's hundreds of billions of dollars of fraud cost to the global financial system every year and that system has a huge amount of trade-offs in that you lose control you know just like this this piece of cash that our grandparents lived with and they enjoyed at the end of the day you know they had total dominion of that you didn't have civil asset forfeiture you didn't have freezing of assets these types of things you the country went bad you could convert that into silver to something else people couldn't come in and just seize money out of your bank account like put in a wealth tax cipriotti style or something like that so what cryptocurrency users have done is if effectively taking the rules that our grandparents live with and they've updated them to live in a digital world and the problem is instead of having just the occasional pickpocket who can reach into your pants and take your wallet you now have a global pickpocket so you have people everywhere and scammers everywhere and they're really really good at trying to separate you from your money and they're very clever and they do all kinds of things I've personally been impacted for example I have cell phone and hackers got enough social information about me they called my cell phone company and convinced my cell phone company to convert my sim to their sim so I lost access to my own cell phone from my own cell phone company and then once they had access to my cell phone they tried really hard to break into all my accounts now Michael Turpin is a very famous guy in the cryptocurrencies face not only had this happened to him he lost millions of dollars from it as a result of that backdoor that AT&T in his case did that so even the best of us can be subject to theft fraud scams and abuse so the question is what do we do about it well my view is it's a really bad idea at the protocol level to say Bob you're in control you get to decide right and wrong who gets their money back or this committee gets to decide that it's a bizarre terrible thing I think yose is a great example of that you know we already have deciders there's judges there's police there there's a judicial branch of every government even Mickey Mouse governments like North Korea they have some notion of a judicial branch so there's already people who get to say I'm empowered with deciding whether you get something back or not so instead what you need to do is say look the base protocol is like cash but you know what I can do with cash I can convert it into other forms and when I do that I get added trade-offs maybe I lose some control but now I get consumer protection there's insurance there's multi sake there's custodial accounts and so forth so what we ought to do is instead of saying can we build a governance system and have 21 people or whoever get down and and I have to investigate what the hell to do with a global financial system but they're not qualified for and not legally able to actually do instead of trying to reinvent 2,000 years of human government let's just instead open up the free market and let insurance markets form custodial markets for multi-sig solutions form and so forth and that will give you finer grained control I mentioned the exchange addresses there's no reason we couldn't open that up and you could do your own reversals and store your money this way you could write smart contracts to put custom terms and conditions and if you don't want to do it people can template it created and then you can use it to store funds accordingly and best practices can form now what do you do about scams once consumer fraud and nothing will replace your government's judicial branch if bob says I'm going to give you X and Bob doesn't do it you can sue Bob and if bob is a real criminal bob can go to jail for that and the rules haven't changed just because we're doing a different mechanism you know people stole cars back in 1915 it was a different type of car then the Lamborghini they still today but it's the same act and the justice system is more than capable of dealing with these things now whether it can do it or can't do it is contingent on the rule of law the society you live in and the powers you've given that particular branch so you as a consumer have to self protect ultimately so you have to ask yourself what can I do to have good hygiene to protect myself from scams and for the most part most people aren't falling for the Nigerian prince scam most people aren't following a following for the person who knocks on your door and says donate money to the orphans or these types of things with the exception of people who lack the cognitive capabilities to take care of themselves and this is one area where crypto currencies have a big family my grandfather on my mom's side he's in his mid 80s and we've had to work real hard with him to lock down as accounts because he's become a target for scammers people will call him up and sell him gold coins that really aren't worth very much or ask him for political donations and for a long time he was one of the most savvy people ever he was a lineman who worked his way up to be a vice president of a cable company and got 19 patents including one on the cable box he was a brilliant guy and he and he never had a college education but yet despite that he was able to retire very well-off but the problem is that he's gotten to the point in his life where he no longer has the ability to handle complex financial discussions and people know that they smell it and they're trying to take advantage of them so we as the family had had to come together and help Mao and a lot of families have to do this for the older and the infirm my grandfather and my other side my my dad's dad he has Alzheimer's and again he was a brilliant man he was a surgeon an ob/gyn delivered four thousand kids over his career and had land up in Montana and land in Hawaii and unfortunately as his Alzheimer's got worse and worse his financial decision-making got worse and a lot of that nest egg that he had constructed to give him a good retirement got absorbed away the problem with cryptocurrencies is they take things that are like bank accounts which normally do have some protections and allow other people to come in and when it's a social problem resolve it especially on a family side and they treated like cash and if grandpa has Alzheimer's and he's buried a lot of money somewhere on a 600 acre estate you're never gonna find that good luck and it's the same problem with cryptocurrencies you know what happens when they forget the private keys this is one of the challenges that we as an ecosystem have to think really carefully about and unfortunately for this particular asset class there may exist realities and scenarios where these things just don't work out so well and people lose their money in other cases like with hal Finney who was in Bitcoin very early he was able because he knew he was going to die and he knew he was declining to protect himself and his family as best he could but even they were actually victims of ransom attacks and scammers and other such things and they had great preparation so it's a great conversation to have from our part we can build great devices and smart contract standards and special transaction types but at the end of the day it is something where third-party services are going to have to interact with the protocol to provide that level of coverage which actually stumbles into another point about what is the role of the financial institution in a post cryptocurrency world I see a lot of people usually people that want to separate you your money run around and say cryptocurrencies are gonna kill all the banks kill all the insurance companies kill all the financial institutions no because at the end of the day financial institutions exist not to take money from you they do that today a lot because they've been perverted but in the beginning they were about saying you have something and I'm gonna help you protect and transform that thing you have and over the arc of your life so you get less risk you can grow it more and you get more certainty for you and your children and your children's children there are a service provider that's the at the end of the day the heart of what the financial industry should be doing as a good industry so the financial industry as it learns more about cryptocurrencies it's just another asset class it's just another tool and maybe they're not going to be as large part of the economy and make as much money as they used to but there's going to be some subset of people who are quite clever who can adopt special types of processes that can take care of my grandfather and my other grandfather as we grow older and as life gets more complicated and harder and our goal is to preserve the fruits of our labors as opposed to growing the fruits of our labors and to make sure that those fruits can be transferred from one generation to the next generation and a responsible and well thought out way and it turns out that they have much much much better palette to work with much better canvas to work with then they have with the legacy financial system where you only have five tools and they all kind of look like hammers here they have code they can actually do amazing things so I'm actually very excited to see how we can go back to the baronial age and go back to the way things used to work in the financial industry where you have a relationship with somebody and that person's adding value either in that they're protecting you or that they're making transactions better or more comprehensive or that they're making your ability to transfer what you have to someone else occur with less friction so it's a great question though and thank you for asking it Kenny I nml in the crypto sphere cardano's specifically yeah so I get a lot of AI questions and I get a lot of questions about machine learning like what's the role for this stuff in the cryptocurrency space so you know Apache has a project called flink and there's this notion of complex event processing and in the financial world is very sophisticated these days and so one thing hi you can google this it's actually a create anomaly so somebody hacked I think it was Reuters Twitter feed one of the news agencies and as a spoof they tweeted Whitehouse attacked Obama injured in route to hospital now the moment that they did that the markets went not minutes not hours but like literally seconds after that tweet came out no human being could have possibly reacted to that so you have to ask yourself what happened how did the markets react like that well what happened is that people were at all these algorithms and these algorithms there are complex events and basically they watch all these sources of data and they weave them together into a mosaic and that mosaic forms a picture and that picture is retro addicted to many different things and it's it's an opinion on how reality ought to be it's only as good as the inputs that are going into it now what's so incredibly interesting to the financial industry about the blockchain space is one of the if you look at the historical failures like for example the 2008 financial crisis or the long-term capital crisis almost always these things come from not having a consolidated data feed not having a consolidated marketplace or tape in that some subset of people were doing business in a way that was okay ik to the broader community and that was still somehow connected to the rest of the marketplaces in that if their business went sour it would cascade and caused this huge failure in the system so we're a I nml I think fit blockchain spaces as more and more and more stuff goes from the legacy world into these consolidated tapes into these Universal Ledger's that are all transparent to each other for the first time ever ever we're gonna have a situation markets are going to actually have a fair game it's not the game of well you know Bob happens to be co-located next to the stock exchange you put his servers right inside our servers and as a result you can do high frequency trading and deuce things on the micro or nano second to go ahead and get some statistical arbitrage but more rather that we're all looking at the same data feeds and they're all kind of coming together and eventually getting consistent and then a on ml they can come in and say hey you know what does all this mean and what is that tapestry mean and so forth so I don't think that those things are gonna have a huge impact on the design of block chains or in some way make our industry better I think that it's just that those models now have a new input that for the first time ever is more holistic than the way the markets work before and that's really exciting and it's something that I think will give more resilience and stability and I'll also give policymakers better anchors so that when they let they look at macro micro prudential policy see anything else we got here all right let's do one more and then I got to get going let's make it a good one Charles what do you envision the world would be like in 20 years yeah that's uh yeah that's gonna be a fun one answer let's go down that road so you know you have all these guys here called futurists you know and if I could go the University all over again and do everything all over again I'd probably take more art classes I'd learn how to draw and certainly learn how to paint I love Bob Ross but damn I had to be a futurist go get a PhD in that man that's like what is your jobs Lee I write books about where we're all going it's like what if you're right it's like well I'm a visionary what if you're not right well you already bought the book so so at least I can feed myself and there's these these guys that that write these types of things um I would hope that 20 years from now the world looks you know we could kind of break the world into three different buckets and I would hope that we make progress in those three different buckets one I would hope that we understand that the way the world works is a product of narratives it's a product of fictions that we all agreed to believe in like the nature of money why is this worth anything because we said so well who's we the US government who's the US government us the American people and we collectively have come together we could change everything we could hold a new constitutional convention we could rename our money booboo char we could do whatever the hell we wanted to do but collectively we just came up with this and that's the way it is and people believe it's worth products and services so it gets valued right beliefs are very powerful things they create religions sometimes good ones sometimes bad ones they alter how you live your life the types of things you eat for example somewhere along the way we started convincing people that high carb low fat was a good idea it didn't do anything to our heart disease or our diabetes rate in fact quite the opposite they just kept going up but Ancel keys did that and now we have all this food where we strip out all the fat we put in tons of sugar to augment the taste and lo and behold people can't lose weight and they get fatter and fatter so narratives can really have a huge impact on people's perception of reality how they live their life and what they do I would hope that people realize that narratives are malleable and in the next 20 years we gain better cognitive tools and social tools to be able to alter those narratives in a way that is better for everybody we produce so much you know for example there's this idea that America's manufacturing days are behind it it surprises a lot of people to know that we manufacture more things in the United States in 2018 that we didn't hear 2000 or the year 1990 or in the year 1980 or 1970 or 1960 yet people seem to believe that we make less because there's physically less people involved in that particular industry and as we mechanize we automate and as things get more advanced we get even more productive capacity so why is it the fact that despite the fact that we're getting more efficient we have more productive capacity we still have people that live on less than a dollar a day and we still have people that are going through a real hard time you know so I would hope that people realize that if you just change the narrative a little bit like we did when we went from communism is the solution in Africa and all these governments just got really raped and destroyed from it or deep injection of foreign aid and foreign control is the only way to get people out of poverty to like a market oriented approach where you empower people to do their own things we saw in 20 years you know places that were the canonical place for people starving to death to actually having a lower infant mortality rate than Europe had 1950s so the first thing I would hope is that because of the internet the intellectual dark web and all these new capabilities that more and more people wake up to self offering their own narratives trust but verify using critical thinking talk to people look at things get more data-driven and over the next 20 years we have a tremendous opportunity to break up that cartel and to basically be in charge of the way we live our lives and the way we perceive reality second there really is a great silent medical revolution and it's a revolution that focuses on cures instead of treatments and this is something where you have to think carefully about financials one of the reasons why the pharmaceutical industry works the way it does in the healthcare industry is the way it is is that you get paid a lot to treat and you get paid a lot to manage but you don't get paid a lot to cure if you know somebody comes in and you fix their back and they say well my back feels great you know it's like great you got a service for you for that even if it's a very high fee somebody comes in and says my back hurts you say here are some opiates here are some drugs for that and by the way you have to keep taking them or else the pain comes back you make money from that person for the rest of your life as a pharmaceutical industry so there are some in the industry that invest very heavily into treatment but not so much into cures if you look at things like cancer things like no generators Thoreau's autoimmune disorders all these things there's a huge body of things regenerative biology and regenerative medicine immunotherapy where we're starting to learn that you can just have the body heal itself the body built itself from nothing you know just two cells came together and came this huge thing so the body can certainly regenerate itself or repair itself there are some cancer vaccines coming on the marketplace there are some miracles where basically they say hey you know your own immune system can treat it instead of chemotherapy or this similarly we're actually starting to see meaningful progress in growing organs we growing limbs and so forth now that I think is probably one of the greatest achievements in the history of humanity and we're on a collision course to get there there's just tons of great scientists and great Institute's that are working on it unfortunately all the wars the United States has had and the wars we've had is all throughout the world of we'll have millions and millions of amputees and millions of paralyzed people and people with permanent injuries and those people are going to live a very long time 60 years 70 years beyond when they got the injury and the health care system needs to treat that second the dementia crisis where neurodegenerative disorders are coming us is horrendously expensive to deal with so there's just massive amount of government money and industry money coming in and we're moving from a treatment based economy more towards an idea of care based economy where through some combination of perturbing your diet and exercise and other such things some perturbation of things like CRISPR and stem cell research and so forth somehow some way we're gonna stumble into a reality where we can tune things to make things better so that gets me profoundly excited I think over the next 20 years we're really going to start seeing great progress there and it's I'm gonna live and you're gonna live to see the first person get up out of a wheelchair or first person to regrow their legs or first person to have a heart transplant where they grew the heart in a petri dish and a bioreactor as opposed to transplanting it from one person to the next it brings up a lot of ethical questions and it brings up a lot of you know societal questions of well what happens when people start living a lot longer and a lot of the things that used to off us or now we're kept around and what do we do about overpopulation and what do we do about resource allocation because these therapies probably aren't going to be cheap and it's going to be one of the great challenges of the 21st century finally this is the first century I think where we're going to create a new form of life we're going to both be able to bring back life that has been lost and we're going to be able to create different types of life defined by cognition so in terms of bringing back in short order we're probably going to bring back the woolly mammoths and other animals like that there's even documentaries on YouTube you can watch but it's only a matter of time before the extinction happens and in fact from policy perspective so many animals go extinct every year it's much better business if you're an entrepreneur looking for the next big business to start to go to a government and say let your animals go extinct and we'll pay a subscription to us and we'll go ahead and DX tink them when you have the resources to do that then to try to conserve them and prevent them from going extinct as it's just it's a battle that's too uphill to fight but that might be a better way of doing it which then brings up a question of well we can bring back the woolly mammoths but there were over 20 different species of humans of Homo erectus and Neanderthals and so forth what if we could bring them back what does that mean what rights would they have and is that a good idea or not so there's a humongous intellectual challenge ethical challenge societal challenge in that that we're gonna be able to do that and we're not really prepared as a society for the consequences of that we're kind of used to letting things go instead of gaining things back second we're creating artificial eyes in that we're creating these computer programs which are so tremendously complex that at some point they're going to be able to imitate human cognition and at some point they probably will have their own cognition what that means is difficult and the problem is that these systems are mirrors that's the most dangerous part of them we adopt mental defenses and installations about ourselves to protect ourselves from who we really are we tell ourselves lies and we believe those lies and we create social eyes I think Trump is the best of the world at that just think that I am X but the problem is when you have something like the laws of physics or a cryptocurrency or an AI it can look at you with a penetrating gaze that is um so profoundly intrusive that all your fictions go away and who you really are gets exposed you know how much you lie you know how much you kind of procrastinate and that's a profoundly uncomfortable thing and this can be done on the individual level and on the social level and when you start giving commands to such creatures to such entities like let's protect the environment or let's prevent the world from descending into chaos the reality is the optimal solution may not be a solution that's in the favor of you individually so then you have to ask yourself well how do we address and deal with that and that's another one of the great challenges of the 21st century is the creation of life that is a mirror that will show us things we don't want to see and at some point we'll be able to evolve at a rate much faster than us and as a consequence have capabilities we don't have now if we're smart and humble we could recognize this is the greatest tool in human history in that we've created a living God to give ourselves ideas and force ourselves into modes of cognition that collectively are good for us we've created the parent we've always wanted to have if we're dumb we will use these tools for purposes of war and greed and we'll lose control of them and eventually they'll turn on us and destroy us so the 21st century is really going to be the the make-or-break moment in my mind for the human race we thanks to the hard work of the people who came before us now have the paintbrush of reality in our hands and we get to decide basically whether we're going to extend beyond where we're at as a race and go into the Stars and be something grand or we get to decide whether we erase ourselves from history the prior generation got close to this with the event of nuclear weapons and we got very close to annihilation twice once during the Cuban Missile Crisis where we were literally one key turn away from extinction and then another time during the 1980s were an astute colonel recognized that there was a computer failure and that the United States wasn't launching missiles at the Soviet Union and violated direct orders and violated his training to avoid nuclear Armageddon we were that close twice to extinction as a species and now the 21st century is going to give us the potential to do it again but this time do it in a way that we really don't have a chance to survive so my hope for the next 20 years is that we recognize that the fictions we have the narratives that we have can be rewritten and we recognize they can be rewritten in a way that gives us a higher probability of embracing these amazing tools the tools that allow us to live far longer than any humans have ever lived in history and the tools that will allow us to understand more about ourselves and we've ever been able to understand before and to merge with those tools in such a way that we really can get to the next level in our evolution the dystopian reality is that we might not get there that's the challenge every generation has so I don't think so much about material things like money or you know what cryptocurrency is going to win or so forth because at the end of the day it doesn't really matter it's like saying well does Rockefeller did he really care that Standard Oil was broken up okay his company got broken up and still rich he's you know still relevant but at the end of the day he was still subject to the times so the same frailties that you and me have the same diseases you and me have and he still died and the challenges that we look to in the future our existential in nature and we each have to do our part collectively globally not on the nation's state level but globally to actually have a meaningful impact on that so those are the things I think about a lot and I see cryptocurrencies is a Great Awakening to start getting people to understand that they actually have control over the narrative of the world and then once you've gone down that road you start waking up and realizing that there's more and more and more and more you personally actually have control over and that you've been told all these lies that you're worthless and meaningless and you can't do anything everybody's special in their own regard and everybody has a choice that kernel grew up in the Soviet system as a Soviet military officer with the commissar Xin the gulags he was born during the time of Stalin there was no greater system in the world to dehumanize you and tell you you couldn't do something but then he sat there and said you know what it's my call and I'm not going to end the world and I don't care about the consequences and you're no different than him so I would hope over the next 20 years more and more people awaken to that the technology is on autopilot it's going to happen there's too many brilliant people working on it I and if we get it done right we're gonna live in a really good world and let's try to make that happen anyway thank you guys so much for listening is this a bit more philosophical of an AMA less Cardinal related but I hope you guys enjoy it thank you so much
