hi everybody this is charles hoskinson broadcasting live from warm sunny colorado always warm always sunny sometimes colorado you know i actually had my journal scheduled today in ama and i was debating do i do it do i not do it i said ah [ __ ] it i'll feel better let's do an ama um nothing really to discuss uh that's of too much significance went to crypto and went to defcon and the rest of the gang had a lot of fun there um as i mentioned defcon was a little weird this year uh but uh there were still some really interesting presentations on election security and these types of things and crypto was a lot of fun talked to bart perniel saw dan bonet a lot of the other usual suspects that you can run into we had a lovely discussion about tornado cash and the regulatory implications of what exactly had been done there state of the art of cryptography is still advancing pretty rapidly lattices look like they have a big win uh so does hash based crypto a lot of good papers there for post quantum um haar states are really interesting so there's a lot of really good work that's being done translating classical cryptography to um the quantum world uh and you know the usual slew of papers there i missed two days of crypto because i had to go to canada for some stuff and i just got back today so all things considered pretty successful event and i'm now going to a very applied conference at the end of the month at stanford where we're opening our lab so yeah fun stuff there on the gaming side of the world i think we'll eventually have something for crypto bison to say soon and we'll see what that is uh also i had a chance to spend some time with my brother many of you know that he actually used to do super nintendo and nintendo repair uh before he became a doctor and he still kept all of his contacts and connections inside that world and so we had a lovely conversation about what it would take to actually build a super nintendo game these days and turns out there's actually a amazingly large lobby a hobbyist community that builds uh nintendo stuff and they make games still for that platform it's a little different i guess there's a basic to assembly compiler that translate like a high-level language to the assembly that's on the cartridges and they've modified the cartridges a bit to be a bit more powerful uh but there's still a lot of unreleased stuff that needs a little bit of a tender love and care push very primitive platform you only have four megabytes of addressable memory uh i think it's a 16-bit system so it's not very powerful at all but you know they do their best anyway a lot of these types of things uh so let's get to your questions what's the best thing to do for a beginner to get into computer programming that's a good question and it kind of changes lex friedman also asked me about that when i was on a show you know he's a big programmer and he just recently had john carmack on a show so if you have some time he uh carmack broke my record i thought it would stand for a while i was on lex for over five hours and carmack was there for five and a half i suspect they probably went for with for over six with editing and i mean but it's carmack he's like a living legend um and uh he's also one of the best programmers in the world uh so it's always fun to to kind of get his perspective what's a good programming language or not so in my view it depends on your age and your motivation uh for when you think about what's the best option for doing a programming language of you know writing something in a programming language certainly there are some basic principles of computer science that you're eventually going to have to learn if you desire to be effective data structures algorithms uh concepts of like how to do test driven development learning how to do a version control system working with a command line these are all tools of the trade you know building and configuring your ide and getting a proper development workflow working with a debugger real time quality assurance things like linters and so forth but the core of it is saying well what language can you learn that doesn't get in the way of being able to do interesting things and it used to be that in computer programming pedagogy it was well we're going to teach you a structured language that shows you the nuances of everything uh in like java or c plus plus or c or lisp and it really gets deep and then there's another school that said well we're going to teach you a language that allows you to do things very quickly uh something that just you're instantly in you're instantly doing stuff like shell scripting or python or javascript where you have a lot of options and it's very easy to write things do things build things and you get it done uh i think that it's probably a good idea to learn python or javascript as your first language and just start with a collection of milestones so projects of things you want to do and want to accomplish and see if that inspires you enough to be able to then get to the next level of learning an actual full grade language like a c or c plus plus or java or so forth there's a great all-inclusive specialization on coursera on python 3 which basically covers everything to get you started and there's a lot of great books from no starch press that have things that teach you how to automate stuff and so forth with python and that's a very powerful language for web scraping data science ai and just thinking in code in that respect and professionals use it beginners use it and it kind of gets you started now you'll develop a lot of bad habits if all you do is just play around with python and you'll be a little challenged when you're dealing with meta programming or dealing with types or these types of things so it is probably pretty important to have a plan for how you go beyond that and in particular this is why i'm a little bit more biased to the javascript typescript world because at least it it's more structured in that respect and it's a bigger ecosystem but python's quite powerful so i'd start there and the pedagogy is phenomenal in that respect and there's lots of good things thank you from african union shield foundation project shield i mean james c yeah i met with a very interesting man named james who showed me his birth certificate told me it took him two years to get a birth certificate from liberia uh and uh he happened to show up for crypto and we had a lovely conversation about identity and i referred him to the africa credential alliance and uh to john o'connor uh and uh it just was a great case study and how hard it is to get an id and get economic identity uh if you're uh the culture you're from doesn't uh have good infrastructure for that so hopefully we can find a way to collaborate and do something charles is there anyone you look up to that's alive today it's a very good question um there's a lot of people that i really do look up to like matthew ricard is one of them they frame him as the world's healthy the world's happiest man and uh you know the great part about matthew is uh that he started as a scientist and then he became a buddhist monk and he basically just devoted himself to inner contemplation and he developed a very loving kindness aspect of meditation which paid dividends and putting him in a in a perspective where he feels for the most part pretty happy every day uh and that's hard for us to achieve we have moods that go way up and then way down uh so that's that's super cool um i look up to lex friedman you know i really admire his intellectual curiosity his openness his desire for dialogue his pursuit of self-perfection his discipline as a person and overall just his um quest to understand basic things that we all experience but never get to fully define for example consciousness and love in these things i think the world would be a much better place if we had people who constantly did that on a regular basis i admired jordan peterson you know a dogged defense of definitions an understanding of the role of mythology archetypes and models in the development of culture and people and the need of these things for a stable cohesive society as well as the ability to communicate very complicated concepts and thoughts in a long arc there are some people very concise peterson is not but it's always a story with him he always takes you on an adventure and a journey and that's been quite formative for me i admire terence tau you know i really admire how remarkably brilliant and capable he he has been throughout his mathematical career and if you read his blog or his proofs there is a boyish fascination and a desire to always challenge the limits he's absolutely fearless in what he does and he just has this amazing ability to solve things in elegant ways i have seen that since growth in deek so really admire him admire the work ethic admire that he's still productive that he does really interesting things so there's a lot of people i do admire and some i've met some i've interacted with others i haven't uh and in all those cases the each one of them represents something that i would like to have in myself and i always say how do i get there and how do i move in that particular direction i think that's probably a healthy way of looking at it charles any networking book would you recommend for cryptocurrency i assume you're referring to computer networking uh and unfortunately there's no canonical text for this area it's a very very under published and under resourced area we published a paper called the general scuttlebutt talked about peer-to-peer networking and uh cryptocurrencies and the problem is the design of peer-to-peer networks in general um it's it's one of those things that is understood in engineering the lore and there are certainly protocols that emphasize this like cademlia for example but in practice what's happened in the cryptocurrency space is those protocols are inadequate for the types of attacks and the needs of sophisticated consensus systems like proof-of-stake so what's occurred is all this protective sentinel code is put on and all these protocols are put on to actually show you how to run a network like that and you don't actually see that reflected in vanilla networking protocol so for example if you look at the design of lib p2p and you actually look at the implementations of these things or any of these other peer-to-peer protocols that have been built or designed for cryptocurrencies you'll notice a lot of things that are there that are non-trivial and not necessarily fully understandable so this is an area that desperately needs a book to be written about it and unfortunately there is none so i'd just recommend looking at um the peer-to-peer papers that have been published recently that talk about uh the design of a peer-to-peer stack david she has one and then we wrote one as well uh and there's a few others floating around but if you really really really want to understand uh these things then probably good to dissect uh functioning cryptocurrency and look at the network stacks in particular um look at bitcoin's network stack as a reference point and then any of the proof of stake protocols that are third generation like polka dot or cardano probably a good idea to dissect their network stacks because you'll notice there's a lot more to ours than bitcoins because proof of stake requires it and i wish there was a book i could refer you to i'm just not aware of one is there any possibility of changing the name of cardano to a more appealing name i don't know if you guys decide go ahead and do it be fun i like cardano in the past i remember you saying gavin reached out any plans to do something together not currently but if there's ever a collision of interest i suspect we will i'd love to collaborate on standards i'd love to collaborate on smart contracts um collaborate on future protocol design uh gavin's a very bright guy and he's got a lot of good people in the polkadot side and it's a good community as well so it'd be uh a lot of fun to to see if we can figure something out but you know it's it's just one of those things where there has to be a a dual need you know a dual desire so that's nature of partnerships charles do you think elder scrolls six will be released before the polar ice caps melt uh hard to say you know the microsoft acquisition definitely changed the culture um as as has for all the studios that they've absorbed and they don't have a great track record of being able to enable those acquisitions to move quickly but microsoft is a very different company today than it was even five years ago or 10 years ago so maybe the culture has changed enough to enable that and bethesda is a very powerful company so it's got a very good leadership group and they've done a lot of interesting things the elder scrolls series has been hobbled in many ways by the same thing that hobbled warcraft where world of war warcraft 2 led to warcraft 3 and then uh you'd expect to see a warcraft 4 but then they released world of warcraft so a lot of the air got taken out of the urgency to develop warcraft 4 or these other things because you have this mmorpg asset that's generating money so you have elder scrolls online you know and it's it's there it's building a world it's generating money you know is there a lot of urgency to go when you have a strong modding community and you still can sell millions of copies of dlc and anniversary editions and so forth for skyrim yeah i can see it yeah but you got other stuff you got fallout you know you got i guess a new franchise is coming out under bethesda so i can kind of see it it's just a shame they didn't release anything a little earlier and i think it probably would be prudent for bethesda to really start thinking about middleware collaboration in particular be really cool if they embrace the unreal five engine or you know next generation cryengine or stuff like that as opposed to rolling their own graphics engine because then they could focus so much more on the storytelling component and these types of things and i think it would add a lot of value to unreal and actually create a situation where maybe they can get a lot of modding out of it but you know it is what it is it's just a fallout 4 i had a lot of problems with the game uh technical issues bugs uh the really for the time that they invested real uh it was not what was up to snuff from graphics and i don't think their forte is graphics they should focus a lot more on narrative story development ai combat mechanics magic mechanics and so forth the other problem i've had with the elder scrolls series is there's been a gradual dumping and casual gamification of the elder scrolls in particular um you know you go from morrowind which was like you know i'll just bring up my spreadsheet and write my macro and you know and and go and refer to my 300 page uh you know tutorial on alchemy and spell design to skyrim where you can't make your own spells in a very simplistic alchemy system and very simplistic enchanting system and so forth which has been modified by modders but still is primitive and the more desire to move in that direction the less appealing the games are to me but you know i'm kind of old school in that respect damn charles really kicked the hornets this time guys grow up and get over it you know people can have opinions and this is not a problem that's in my hands you know at i o we write software and we do things and we work with people and the sun gets up tomorrow uh you know people we still do what we do and we wake up and uh you know still work hard you know it's nothing has materially changed i think it was mostly just disappointment on my side because people need to understand that the words they say the things they do carry weight and consequences is very easy at this point in my career just to be hands off and stay out of the engine room and just kind of go and play with bison really is but that doesn't serve any interest to the community and it doesn't serve any interest from a pedagogical sense about what needs to be done at the end of the day there are a lot of leaders now and those leaders have to acknowledge and understand that they no longer have full autonomy and full freedom of speech and and full discourse and dialogue like they used to enjoy like i used to enjoy they're under scrutiny and the things they say and do are ultimately going to be judged by people in and out of the community and you know you have to really think well why do processes exist why do guardrails exist why do we have checks and balances it's it's kind of funny it's like all this fun came out about how i always unil unilaterally in control of the network and then we're like well you need 75 of the sbos to upgrade before anything gets done so it's like we're not in charge here guys you are and that'll be formalized more through the sip process but that's how it's always been and uh that's where where we're at right now as a network uh system works and if you work within it you can get a lot more done than if you work outside of it you just kind of create friction you know and people are going to learn that one way or the other don't really affect me you know if you criticize me over twitter you say i'm a poo poo face these types of things doesn't matter nah not really come on guys you know we're all friends here i just want what's best for the ecosystem you know i i want given the fact that so much time money and effort has been invested into building this great ecosystem by a lot of companies a lot of people for cardano to be not only a success but a revolutionary product that changes the world and when i see an opportunity to kind of push people in a certain direction i do go into the engine room and start shouting loud and uh some cases it creates a blowback and short-term disgruntlement but people have to see that i care charles any interested in return to monkey island yes it's cool game you know actually i really liked freddy farkas uh yeah that was a cool game as well charles what do you think of the tornado cash sanctions now that's a very interesting one it's a very unique one so there's a court case dan bernstein versus the ninth court of circuit appeals which ruled that code is free speech uh so the protocol and developer understanding that we have as developers is that when we write code it's an expression and as long as we don't get involved in the running and use of that code for purposes we're just writing it it's like writing a book so for example um you you could write a book saying uh here's how you make cyanide uh here's how you build a bomb uh these types of things and for the most part that's just words you're not really telling people go do this you're just writing stuff down now in a free society we generally allow people to do these types of things and it is deeply uncomfortable when they start saying no because the problem is that it's not clear where to cut that and where intentionality comes into play so generally look for a conspiracy to commit so for example you write the book but then you also start distributing the book amongst extremist groups and making statements like you should use this to go bomb some people then you've kind of crossed the threshold of an academic conversation and the sharing of knowledge to knowledge with intent to do something so generally if you'd see a sanction with a developer of an open source project like a tornado cache or some dark pool or like the silk road for example then you'd say oh well they created it and then they operated it and used it and profited from it and if that was the case this would be you know another silk road another issue just like any other the problem here is they went farther back to an area that seems to be unconstitutional and said just by participating and writing that code and being involved in that it somehow means there was an intent and an operation of that system now a strict interpretation of that would mean that basically they're asserting that software developers are accountable for how their software is used regardless of whether they can control that or not which is an extremely dangerous precedent for example uh if you want to go really far and extreme the linux kernel developers are creating kernel of an operating system north korea could take that kernel build a proprietary os and use that to be the operating system of an icbm so hypothetically you could say the maintainers of the linux kernel are contributing to the nuclear weapons program of north korea you could say that if you wanted to uh so obviously that's absurd but the problem is that the same legal structure that would allow you to infer blame on the tornado cache developer if they weren't involved in the use and operation of the system they just wrote the code could technically be reused this way and this is why the eff and and others who are in the privacy space and in the digital right space are are rightfully so extremely scared about the precedent that something like this is going to set so i don't think it's constitutional and i do think that they're going to need to produce some evidence up beyond just the discussion just the code in order to be able to make the charges stick because there's already a court case about this dan bernstein versus the ninth circuit versus the government it was a nice circuit and he won so yeah it's going to be interesting to see how that pushes through uh yeah and actually this is a good point the tornado dev got 30 of the pre-mine so he's got skin in the game for how it's utilized my understanding and again i'm not deep enough in this to be able to fully rock it is that was not how they approached it because they could have easily made an economic crime and said the the allocation of funds the profiting from it uh was was somehow connected to the dark market i might understand they arrested him for the use of the code and asserted he was developer but you know i i need to get better informed on the uh the issue because there's been a lot of sensationalism about it but i've only just read what the eff has had to say in others and there were several people at crypto talking about it so i'll have to look into it a little bit more and i think the existence of a pre-mine may be sufficient to for an exis a slightly larger than normal influence and that that's the competitive difference of of the two that said if they never used the money they never cashed out the money it was just allocated or if they didn't have the ability to use the money that's another interesting thing i don't know what what does a token mean in this respect certainly if you profit from it you cash it out you do something seems to be different but what is it just having a token mean you know i don't know shout out to king's quest seven was that the mask of eternity because that had a bug in it for me and uh i couldn't get past the underworld because the game would freeze every time i went through what do you make of sam harris's recent comments i think you're referring to sam saying that he didn't care if biden's son had dead children in the basement he still would vote for him it just shows you the extreme lengths of trump derangement syndrome that's okay sam is uh pretty upset about the whole trump era because he's the anticipating he stands for charles what are your thoughts on the top person in longevity medicine and why uh probably at the moment uh gonna be david sinclair um he not only has a long track record uh at harvard of great discoveries and great knowledge he's a very effective communicator with his podcast his book lifespan and he's a good collaborator he works very well with other people and the approach that he's taking he's basically saying it's not necessarily that we lose information in the hardware so the dna side and the argument he has you can take dna from an old creature clone it and make another creature with that and they go through the entire life cycle it's information loss in the epigenome there's more to the story aging is caused by a variety of factors you know the the the it's a complicated topic but the longer the short is that there is some notion of deterioration in how your body maintains protein homeostasis there's a deterioration in telomeres there's a deterioration and and where cell senescent cells are just floating around and they're not being cleaned up properly um stuff just starts breaking down and you know there's plenty of books about this like audrey de gray was one of the formative people in the longevity and anti-aging movements in the 2000s and 2010s been mostly replaced by dave sinclair at the moment and i think dave is on to something because what he's been doing is he's been cloning mice and he's doing something to one mouse and nothing to the other mouse he's leaving it as a control and then real time you watch one mouse get old and the other ones stay younger that's pretty compelling because they're genetically identical and they're in the exact same environment the exact same circumstances the same diet it's really hard to get a better control than that and there are creatures in nature that seem to have the ability to rejuvenate themselves uh salamanders have tremendous regenerative capabilities um there's jellyfish that live forever they form a cyst and then they go back to the polyp stage and then they become a medusa again and they can go back to polyp and so forth and at the end of the day a lot of the things that dave is saying are saying well life had two tracks a time of abundance and pleasure and a time of scarcity and pain and when it's abundance and pleasure be fruitful and multiply and then once you've multiplied die off when you're abund when you're in pain and and scarcity you don't have the ability to multiply it's evolutionarily counterproductive so instead turtle up and live longer until you have the other condition then be fruitful and multiply so a lot of the techniques that they're using for anti-aging involves stressing the body in clever ways and you have different pathways from like mtor and these types of things and so lifespan's a great book and there's a lot of really good information there and ultimately um it's nothing revolutionary if you happen to be a person inside the field but it is very eye-opening that aging is effectively a process that we're starting to actually understand to the level where we may actually be able to do something about it not just slow it down but also rejuvenation so this has led to my fascination with hyperbaric chambers because there's a company called aviv clinics that's using them for rejuvenation and they've had phenomenal results and it's also led to my fascination of cell-based programming where people are like companies like bitbio for example are trying to figure out a language a chemical language for cells and if you expose the cells to the right things you can actually turn them back into other things so there was a japanese scientist who got a nobel prize in medicine who actually figured out the chemical compositions to take a cell and turn it into another cell and later derivations of that work let the ability to turn a cell into a stem cell so you could take like a skin cell and turn it into a heart cell or to a liver cell or to a brain cell and so forth and it indicates that there is a chemical programming language for these things and hypothetically if you understood it you'd be able to program cells in just the right way to do things like kill themselves or multiply or rejuvenate and these types of things which be great for the treatment of cancer and there's a lot of amazing stuff that's happening there dave actually used these techniques in his lab to restore eyesight for an old mouse and it was really clever now you have to be really careful with it if you revert cells back to these proto-states you probably give people cancer so it's a very complicated field and there's a lot of moving pieces and some of you know that i own a company that is starting to get involved in this field and we're approaching it from the clinical side so they're starting with the health and wellness center lots of doctors some in functional medicine some internal medicine some in family practice some genetics experts the clinical pathologists these things and we have a full lab a cli approved lab and compounding pharmacy and a lot of very sophisticated diagnostic equipment including a full genome sequencer so we can do a full body genome a full human genome sequence for lack of a better term and the goal is in just a few years to really replicate and understand a lot of things that dave is doing at his lab and also what peter diamandis is talking about he just wrote a book called life force with tony robbins and dave asprey and a lot of the other people that are very interested in this field will at some point probably start manufacturing exosomes or stem cells and then trying to figure out ways that they could actually be used in experiments to see if there's actually something there i think stem cells and exosomes are part of the question but they require the instruction set it's kind of like having lego bricks around you need somebody to still build the lego in order for the lego to be useful um uh are you considering a run for president 2024 absolutely not you know we still love you right yeah i know you guys do i still love you guys charles what are your thoughts on the us keeping billions of dollars that belongs to afghanistan maybe when the taliban government stops murdering women and indiscriminately shooting translators we can talk about returning alleged property that belongs to them you know um it's very easy to pick on the united states and call us the big boogie man and we sure as hell have done a lot wrong in the world but every now and then it turns out that maybe there's other people that do things wrong too and i don't really have a lot of patience or tolerance for theocracies dave asprey's appearance on joe rogan podcast was deleted really i didn't know about that i like asprey what's going on with him anybody uh anybody got a problem with him charles booty come on guys that's where the action is the question that's been answered a dozen times and a movie is being made about and you ask me again i've certainly told myself out of the story many many times it's a closed issue charles you should be on joe rogan's podcast it'd be an interesting conversation you know i probably will after the thylacine comes back you know i've been thinking uh you know i said rogan after gogan i but there's a large backlog of things that still need to be done he lied on rogan what did aspree lie about i don't know this story i've read his books and everything and like bulletproof coffee is the [ __ ] what's going on guys guys are bringing me up to speed man um do you have a favorite species of fish i really do like koi fish they live a very long time and they're quite friendly you can feed them every day and say would you be fish bullet coffee is a [ __ ] you can make your own too you just take some mct you take some butter like kerrygold unsalted put that [ __ ] together in a blender make it up boom got some bulletproof coffee you probably if you haven't done it before you should take some keto digestion drugs fat can be quite upsetting into the tummy it's a good dad joke i'm gonna steal it charles do you see the public service announcement for dried grapes it's all about raisin awareness that's good are we in a simulation nick bostrom believes so it was about the coffee apparently he stated some disingenuous statements from what i understand really and and his episode was deleted over coffee or like what what did he say guys i'm like learning real time with you has cardano reached the final stage of its road map i wish an answer to my question and the answer is no there's basho and voltaire for the 2020 roadmap and then there will be the 2027 roadmap ah new roadmap and you guys get to vote on that decide so that's what you want have you ever done mushrooms or lsd you know this is an interesting question there's a good documentary that's coming out called how to change your mind it's based on a book that i read years ago from michael pollan uh with the same title and long and short is that usually what mushrooms lsd do is they reset what's called the default mode network it's an area of your brain and it's something that as you get older tends to be a little ossified and you start developing pattern recognition so everything becomes autopiloty so when you have kids you're [ __ ] fascinated with everything you're like ah just everything is amazing to them and you're an adult you just brush your teeth you don't even remember you drive you don't even remember you know your life is on autopilot and your perception of reality your belief structures all of these things tend to be there so what these things do is they scramble that and they reset it effectively or so we've been told uh to a point where you have that childlike enthusiasm again and all those walls those ego that fades away momentarily and for many people it's a deeply transformative experience now what's being researched right now is how to replicate these effects without necessarily using pharmaceuticals so you can actually google this there's been some studies done recently of using virtual reality to replicate a psychedelic experience and they've had some success with that the neural meditation institute also has been looking at things like transcranial magnetic transcranial electric stimulation so neural feedback to actually knock the mind with the meditation into a psychedelic state as well where you've reset the default mode network so there's many roads to up down still rome in that respect and set and setting are very important so i highly encourage you to watch the documentary or to read the book that michael pollan wrote lovely lovely book and look at a boatload of the research that's there but think about that how cool is that that a vr experience could actually cause you know a psychedelic trip now let me see if i can find the company real cool so we're healing potential and there's actually a company that's been looking at this the vr is as good as psychedelics so here's the technology review article from mit how about that all you al goran fans you now have something to love suckadelex transit so that's the link right there and you guys can type it in or just look for it but actually there's a company here and let me grab the company 75 participants my vr trip yay phd candidate far from settled ah enuma yeah so here's the vr company that's looking into this boom pretty cool stuff huh pernis werness and fantastic fungi on netflix yeah it finally arrived i did didn't i ever worked with gabe newell uh no but i think he's been on my chat is a quantum resistant cardano on the roadmap like qrl quantum resistant ledger um no and there's a very good reason for that so in the original roadmap we did look at quantum resistance and there were three reasons why we decided not to pursue it one was that nist at the time had not standardized the quantum protocols the quantum resistant protocols so it was entirely possible that we'd pick an algorithm that nist decided not to pick the whole industry would move differently and then that would go wildly out of date two many of the protocols are not optimized so they're really slow the key sizes are huge and the corollary is also that they they haven't had robust security analysis so while they have interesting proofs and approaches because the mathematical complexity is higher and the overhead's higher there are potentially many many many more attack vectors and three uh the protocols have yet to be translated for all the next generation cryptography like vrf's zero knowledge proofs all these things that you guys love and you want to have like recursive snarks and these things for the most part uh post quantum crypto has yet to enter that space at scale and the places where it's entered it's mostly theoretical mostly untested and usually takes a performance hit of 10 to 100x in terms of key size validation efficiency proof size etc etc so we said boy that's um that's tough and it made much more sense to to say wait another five years because quantum computers are not a reality today at scale we have plenty of time to go in and add new capabilities uh to basically slowly introduce quantum resistance like a post-quantum vrf some modeling of a quantum adversary for consensus and putting some additional functions and features to protect that and eventually post quantum signature schemes and potentially some upgrades the hashing algorithms charles when hydra thanks there is a public road map for the open source hydra project they're chipping away at it every few weeks they have a release encourage you to check it out on github charles what's your take on the impact tesla's optimus robot may or may not have love you buddy i think it's so cool 150 pounds of joy it's a really powerful robot it's got a lot of cool ai features and also it has all the computer vision stuff that comes from the cars it's a great platform and i think within a 10 to 20 year period it will usher the dawn of pseudo consumer robotics so the robot will become the car of the future i would love absolutely love to have five or ten of these things if they actually work at scale and they can do labor because of just my ranch for example you know i got 11 000 acres and it's just ton and ton of forest land and then you know you live nearby a town of 3 500 people it's damn near impossible to find laborers and workers and you have to bring them up pay them 50 bucks 75 an hour in some cases to go and do arborist work or other things and it's just endless the work that's there so it makes a lot of sense if i had optimists like robots that were capable of doing these things just have them do menial tasks keep the roads clear clear out brush do some of the arborist work plant trees landscaping considerations these types of things surveillance anti-poaching all kinds of stuff like that so i'm very excited about it long term but i think it's going to take probably five to ten years to hit mainstream charles what are you going to get a on the best of the worst with red letter media oh my god i love that show mr plinkett number two hello from south korea good to see you this is like a modern day buddhist cone why is pizza round delivered in a square box and served in triangles triangles make sense because those lines are equal distance from the center point of the circle and so that's the only way you can cut it and have equal portions for people so that one makes sense the circle for the pizza comes because the original pizzas were actually made by soldiers on their shields and they had circular shields many many years ago and delivered in a square box it's really hard in rectangular rooms to have boxes and stores that are circular you certainly get more space efficiency on the pizza box but then think of a stack of them in a corner it's not going to fit in the corner so you have to have it square charles what are your thoughts on the importance of systems literacy and education model building and systems literacy 100 andrew i completely agree with you it's pretty damn sad that uh we're underappreciated there i'd recommend you guys read up on scott page his model thinking course and it just changed your mind about the power of this and that's just models and systems as a whole ballpark unto itself how was the video shoot with champ it was a heck of a lot of fun and champ was a very gracious guy him and his entourage and i really enjoyed spending time with them meeting them we got a lot done he's a cool dude got try out my night vision and drove the sherp charles can i come in and straight up your office it's a little untidy and my ocd is kicking in full steam it's like jordan peterson is like gotta make your bed oh my god he doesn't make his bird have you ever tried a sensory isolation tank i own a sensory isolation tank charles the article about chemical in the rain that you share on twitter forever chemicals very very bad it's actually one of the worst problems right now and i think it's the cause of the loss of male fertility and they stick around forever we rarely talk about them when will you and sean ford ride off into the sunset on horseback is that like is that like a proposal is sean going to ask me he's going to email me and say charles i just can't stop these feelings i i need you charles do you see yourself ever making another blockchain after cardano is finished well first cardano will never be finished second if it's a side chain of cardano sure be fun to build some daps inside chains that'd be great what is the picture you posted on twitter a while back that had 21 dots justin you're gonna have to post a link to that and i will i will take a look at it let you know what are your thoughts on the fda and all the food additives in the u.s compared to other countries it's killing us charles how's your relationship with ergo thus far you and alex are geniuses love alex love virgo they're great people charles do you feel like we have too many people on the planet do you think as animals we are living outside our means i think if the systems are right you can sustain populations much higher than the way the earth works right now uh you know warhammer 40k universe has this idea of a high city so plenty of things we could do the problem is that you have to start with fundamentals energy most fundamental thing we should have a geothermal and nuclear backbone for the world and then build a distributed power grid with solar mostly solar shingles and build a big global collaboration where all the governments get together chip in some money the corporations get together chip and some money and go and build us graphene like batteries you know next generation battery technology um you do that in 25 years you've solved the energy crisis fourth generation nuclear power it's here it's ready to go they're building one of these plants in wyoming uh and then the next generation beyond that will be fusion ready to go for the second half of the 21st century and geothermal its time has come with egs these things together no power concerns you have unlimited power uh and then if you have energy then you go and do vertical hydroponic farming and then suddenly you can grow significantly more significantly more plants with the same level of farmland so you can support a much larger population now you'll have to have higher population density uh in certain areas that's okay but for the most part you don't necessarily have to destroy the environment you just have to have seven generations thinking each person born has to be in a position where they think about what will the actions they take impact somebody seven generations away and if you have that you can sustain as many people as you want because people will behave accordingly so you need a systems level change in the way that people think and people value things so capitalism has to be updated a little bit for that not in a scary communist way you just tweak the parameters create multiple currencies and incentivize things differently we do that in the cryptocurrency space ada incentivizes its own maintenance there are spos and catalyst participants and you the community are incentivized to take care of this decentralized organism that lives in the cloud no matter what happens to the stewards that initiated it you guys are paid by that system to keep it alive that's a different currency so why couldn't you replicate these thinking in these concepts to keep nature alive create biodiversity improve the environments that harm the environment in that respect so the short answer to your question is no if we have the right systems in place and the right thought process in place and the right energy policy in place do you fear becoming oppenheimer p.s i love your work and cardano no uh maybe with some of the work that we're doing in synthetic biology but not with uh cryptocurrencies will agi singularity and transhumanism occur in the next 25 years you know when i was younger i was big in the transhumanist movement the whole h plus movement and there's still a lot of people floating around there and to me it always felt like a really cool vibrant movement and there were a lot of great thinkers inside of it because they were asking a very simple question what if you can upgrade the hardware what would you do where would you take that what does that mean so everything else in life cars computers farming houses we live for the upgrade consumerism and capitalism has trained us to not be content with version one so we do version two and version three and version 4 and version 5. but somehow we're told well you know nature's giving you just this body and you just have to accept it what we've discovered through scientific inquiry and deep inner reflection is the body that we're given is not good for us and when i say not good meaning it wasn't designed to maximize our personal happiness our personal utility our meaning it was designed in a collective sense to protect it and survive and thrive in in different environments that we happen to have evolved into and whether we're happy or not our life is quality and everything's great or not has very little bearing on that flesh back that we have uh so this is reflected in the fact that some people have dysmorphias or mental illnesses uh this is reflected in the fact that some people are born with congenital defects this is reflected in the fact that depression is a huge issue in the human race huge issue for the people who suffer from it it's devastating uh it's worse than many cases being shot it's it is just as destructive so the promise of transhumanism is basically saying through genetic modification and cybernetic augmentation um and just good old-fashioned good medicine and good understanding of how our bodies work we can hack ourselves in a certain way to either give ourselves new capabilities or to correct deficiencies of evolution for example um i just read the other day that they were playing with human cells and they actually managed to take an octopus camouflage and put it into a human cell so some species of octopus have the ability when they're sitting next to something to change the color of their body like a chameleon does and look like that thing so they become a functionally invisible and they're super cool videos on youtube showing that well what if you had the ability just sitting in a black chair like this your skin can change i you know sit next to another thing your skin can change it really does change the whole racial debate if you can change the color your skin at will doesn't it things get a little different you know the way we view people would be very different it's the same when we talk about other capabilities like i'm very interested in anti-aging if you look at salamanders or uh other animals that are like them they have these amazing like axolotls they have these amazing abilities to regenerate you can chop off an arm and your arm grows what if humans have that amazing ability what if we could genetically modify ourselves to live long periods of time and rejuvenate ourselves on a regular basis what if we could find a way to fly these types of things what would that do to society and culture there's also equity issues here in that what if that's not evenly distributed like the hyper wealthy like myself have first access to it and normal people don't and so the difference between the wealthy and the poor is not just arbitrary pieces of paper it's now evolutionarily speaking you're different species a homeless supremacist you're you're just homo optimus you know homo you know chattis you know this like the basically have genetic advantages massive biological advantages so that means your productivity your intelligence your capability to compete is better so actually the rich get richer at a much accelerated pace the difference between the halves and have nots gets very big in that respect you eventually have these cybernetic transhumanist overlords that rule over earth not so good so that plus the ai component of this idea of extended cognition or maybe this fleshy brain bag that we have we can extend our thinking outward into it uh for example when you look at a lot of neural science they say hey when you hold devices or you go places your brain starts treating these things as an extension of yourself like when you ride a bicycle or something like that if you do it enough the brain starts wiring itself in a way that it starts thinking the bicycle is indeed part of you it's really creepy so you start interacting with computers maybe you can actually move your consciousness or your awareness from just your body to another system i don't know who [ __ ] knows how consciousness works there's some crazy stuff from roger penrose on it uh so transhumanism also brings the perspective of this idea of us going from i to we so instead of just being a person you could be a node and a collective of cognition think about how different the world would be if when you try to understand somebody you can literally plug into their brain and they can plug into your brain kind of like a vulcan mind meld and then collectively how much different would society be if we had these capabilities and people are looking into this that's a functionally what neural link is doing in open water and these uh these other companies are drilling holes in the skulls and putting wires in so that you can read and write and then eventually brains can communicate with each other so that's another big component of transhumanism not just the modification of the organism but the linking of the organisms to create a meta organism a collective consciousness in this respect which will fundamentally change the notion of what it means to be human in that respect um that's creepy as [ __ ] it is pretty creepy um anytime you change is creepy but then again probably a lot of things that we do today are probably super creepy to an ancient human i don't know you know it's um something we all have to live with and think about um boy that create more empathy yeah it would wouldn't it well actually no the poor will not work as servo skulls they'll start as servitors and only the fortunate honored servitors will become the servo skulls how this works people hope is the first step on the road to disappointment how can a guy that makes some computer software for free get arrested the same way you can get arrested for writing a book that's inconvenient to somebody how cool was it uh was the it's a scam it's a scam remix well i just like to say i just loved winning the scammies uh thank you tone vase it was uh it was truly an honor really enjoyed it what is your favorite warhammer faction well obviously obviously it's the space marines come on i shorted the [ __ ] out of ada okay good for you matthew good acre good for you thank you for letting us know can you put on one of your masks i've been wearing masks for two years now nah take me a little time do you like minx can boo yeah he is good characters um probably in the original baldur's gate i'd say who would be my favorite in the original ballers gate i mean tx was just amazing as an npc tx rules uh just a lot of fun actually quite powerful um in the second boulder's gate minx took a larger role than in the first one was one of the essential tanks to have arie the cleric wizard was a very powerful uh character as well great love story too what's your favorite video game of all time i think of all time that had the most influence on me balder escape 2 but that's a hard one because i've played so many water bears charles talk about the water bears i'm sorry the story is unbearable have you heard of skinwalker ranch and if so do you think uh what does i think is going on down there i'm probably gonna go visit it i got a connection through the night the um colossal guys to skinwalkers so one of these days where we're going to go and hang out and it's going to be a lot of fun lex friedman in the house yo lex is in the house where'd lex go i didn't see the comment hey lex i was talking about transhumanism there for a little bit having fun proof of stake how long silas simon well if lex if you're in the house please do ask a question ah there's that hard i look for i absolutely love the john carmack interview i loved his uh explanation of his relationship with john romero which was great thank you for asking that question and it was a lot of fun also to hear him talk about engineering and his time at itself all around just fun very very fun you've been knocking out of the park lately there's been some phenomenal episodes i just saw the the jordan peterson one pop up and i can't wait to watch that as well you know actually i have an ai venture that i'm thinking about doing that involves chat bots and it was inspired by um your interview that you did with uh what's your name about replica uh the um ai companion oh yeah the cia one was brilliant as well that was really fun episode he's probably the since joe left youtube and went to uh and went to spotify i think lex has become the dominant youtube podcast i don't even listen to joe rogan anymore yeah replica is really an interesting concept if you look at how gpt is evolving and you look at how quickly um people are integrating ai into all the things that they do it probably stands to reason that you're going to have a human-like experience with something like replica and a five to ten year horizon so that old classical turing test may actually work its way through but it brings a lot of interesting things into like a metaverse play in an nft play because you say okay well what are you going to do with this chat bot that you functionally trained up to be like joy from blade runner 2049 well you want to own it you want to have agency for it you want to interact with it in a more interesting and material way so you know i can entirely imagine that there's the surface would allow you to create it as an nft and then import that into a metaverse and then interact with it through some form of a vr experience for me it's much more interesting to say well how can you use these things as facilitators for human connection and relationships so it would be so cool if you had a service that took a chat bot it talked to a person got to know that person another chat bot talks to a person gets to know that per thing and then those two do the matching and connect people together i frankly think replica is in a perfect position to facilitate this uh and then if this is done just the right way you could basically have any type of connection you want professional connections friendship connections and relationships and you can integrate into the chat bots a lot of sentinel code to to understand if people are are adversarial in their uh relationships um or communication like for example um you could use fbi interrogation techniques to see if people are kind of lying in the way that they communicate and over arc of time they tend to catch themselves a little bit um you put myers-briggs personality test you put all kinds of things to actually get dense data but if you're clever the chatbot can disguise that in the auspices of normal communication so you get much better matching algorithms much better matching capabilities with these things now if you combine that with uh some privacy preserving crypto it's entirely possible that the majority of this stuff is collected and run client side and never sent to a server or possessed by a third party so i think you can actually balance the the nature of uh basically the need for privacy with the desire for connectivity in that respect so uh maybe the time has come that like ai assisted relationships um you know the other thing is that when we make a profile about ourselves uh we tend to lie a little bit everybody puts their best foot forward but when you get to know somebody and they really get to know you they develop a more realistic opinion than anything you'd ever be able to say so if the matching was done by a non-human for connecting people and it's done by an objective agent that has the ability to drill down a little bit it just feels like it'd be better but it'd be fun to do an ai venture in this uh in this respect and and find a way to connect these types of things i i think it's one of those things that is going to be done in three to five years and i just looking at trajectory of how quickly chat bots are evolving and how quickly ai is evolving um it's just remarkable um you know optimus is going to require human level interaction so there's a whole incentive for that and then when you look at google tensor you know every generation these chips come out all the interactions that they're having all the training from those human actions every interactions these chips have um it really is evolving at a rate where i think you will get that natural human interaction that we've been striving for forever in artificial intelligence and then once you have it people trust it they empathize with they connect to it and eventually we'll fall in love with it and so forth so uh that's pretty cool stuff you ever get sick of having to defend yourself your life's work hard out into the people who ride the hype train and have no idea about anything well that's a less evolved charles hoskinson would agree to that type of thing at the end of the day every criticism has buried within it a kernel of truth if it didn't it's not a criticism it's fantasy like if somebody comes up to me and says you are the worst wizard in tolkien's stories what the [ __ ] does that mean it's like i'm not a wizard i'm not into looking stories i have nothing to do with that universe so it has no emotional reaction but somebody comes up to you says you've lied about this or you know you are incompetent or you're incapable they have a personal criticism about an event that you are connected to then it makes you enter into a cycle of self-doubt and reflection if you're sane and you basically go through these emotions of anger and doubt and rage and and justification and so forth uh and if you're not careful the entire game becomes proving this person is wrong lefty the criticism what you need to do is steel man it and say well what if let's play the what if game they're right what if what they've said is entirely true and we look at the criticism of cardano to steal man the criticism there's a lot there that's valid the choice of haskell the choice of peer review uh the launch of cardano the fact that no vcs were involved and it was done in a very democratic way um making a high priority out of decentralization uh less accessible developer experience these are all fair criticisms and they have to be because you take a risk doing it on the other side and if it turns out it's right in hindsight it seems obvious but at the time it's a risk remember microsoft was one of hundreds of software companies that were founded in 1970s the vast majority of the ones founded at the time microsoft was founded are now out of business they were out of business in the mid 80s so all of them somewhere larger lotus was larger are not here anymore they're gone because they chose poorly but at the time it seemed like they chose wisely and microsoft was the one choosing poorly just to give you a sense of this when ibm came to microsoft and said hey guys we want you to write an operating system they passed on the deal they said no we don't do that but we know these guys over here they're going to do a great job for you they went over there and those guys they didn't want to sign the nda and they come back to microsoft anchors ah those guys you referred us to it's a waste of time bill's i'll i'll do it for you it's what like languages how the [ __ ] did we write an operating system and paul allen's like i don't worry i know a guy we could buy it from you see they had no fantasy of windows back then and now it's like obvious in the history of of microsoft in that respect so we made a lot of risky choices as a community and uh and i did my best to kind of balance all of the different needs and trade-offs and so forth and right now real time we're living the criticism and we're living the the fruits of our labors we know we've made a difference and we know changed things and so forth uh personal criticism of me very valuable haven't always been the nicest person the most mature person haven't always been the best person in life and it's the difference between you and me is that my grievances the issues with me are aired more publicly but they exist on both sides all i have agency over is to ask what wisdom can be gained from the criticism and have enough self-awareness to say tomorrow be a little better be a little bit more patient be a little smarter be a little bit more capable have a little bit more love in one's heart because at the end of the day that's all i have agency over that's all i have control over and so forth and be willing to admit that maybe your ideas are wrong and be willing to admit that maybe some of the approaches and processes that you followed are wrong some of your conceptions about how the world works are wrong the brightest people the wisest people the most capable people are the people who have capacity for radical change quickly when the time demands it and those often are the most effective people in any organization the people are static and dogged and you know very uh fundamentalist in the way that they approach things they seldom get anything done because at the end of the day they dug their heels in and that's that there's no room for debate it's why i hate bitcoin maximalism so much they said the world ended january 3rd 2009 there is no room for anything else other than the doctrine we have given which we shall occasionally through a papal bull or conclave i update a little bit we'll change a word here and there but for the most part it's perfect how boring is that how sad is it that all progress ends on a day and we no longer have the right to evolve it's almost like uh dr ford's speech in westworld to bernard when he said all of human evolution was constructed through a mistake and if we stop making him then we're as good as it gets that's the sadness of it so it's a mixed bag if you pay too much attention to it you become neurotic and broken and inspired and self-doubt if you ignore it you have no ability to improve yourself so you have to find the right balance between the two see what else we got here ah yeah yeah yeah looking at some interesting questions maybe maybe come on is it hard being charles sometimes do you feel more evolved than in previous years i feel more aware of how open and vast the world is and as a result how much smaller i am if you're gaining wisdom you're admitting less knowledge and you're admitting that you are less relevant in a certain respect however paradoxically at the same time you grow in relevance um it is it's a hard thing getting old you know when i started in this industry i have four grandparents three are dead now and i have one left who's in his 90s and probably not gonna last much longer dad's a lot older family's a lot older things have changed um been through a lot personally and there's a lot more white in the beard than there used to be and i i suppose that shared experience going through that watching others go through that has indeed changed me and grown me and it's left me with a desire to do better and be better and it makes me jealous of of having a lack of time you know i'm in a position where i have access to some of the best people in the world for self-improvement whether it be physical exercise mental exercise and i've accessed the best therapies hyperbaric therapies neural stimulation the drug of the week you know i can get anything i need um and really the limiting factor is the commitment and time to get into it learn anything i want to learn i have a formal institute of mathematics for god sakes the hoskinson center for formal mathematics i could spend the next 10 years doing nothing but automated theater improving and just spending every day proving interesting things if i really cared to do that why not time so it's strange to be in a position where i could do anything but not everything not many people can say either but i can for that and so then the question is how do you spend it wisely and then it makes you kind of hesitant to invest and commit and i find myself cutting commitments these days as opposed to embracing them outside of things that are long-standing passions for example some video games i want to develop or the anti-aging clinic or you know bioluminescent plants these are things that i want to do for a very long time but even there i take less of a leadership role than my biotech company my brother basically runs the day-to-day operations of it others i'm hiring ceos to run those companies and i give them a creative input and you know i just watch it evolve and grow and and i'm trying to take back my time in a certain respect because i really would like to focus in on those parts of anything that really mean the most uh um huh why haven't you bought a zero gravity chair yet i do have one it's in one of my houses why wasn't ethereum on proof of stake from the beginning because launching proof of stake is super [ __ ] hard super hard and uh it took us a few years and uh a lot of effort to get it to a point where we felt pretty comfortable with it and ethereum had even more difficulty because they were trying to solve multiple problems at the same time it looks like they've converged to something and i'm pretty confident that they will have proof of stake in market soon it won't be the end-all be-all it's going to take a long time for them to achieve scale and you'll see that with our input dorsi specification but it's uh it's not easy you ever been to japan if so what's your favorite spot i used to live in osaka and uh i was very very happy to go to nara whenever i had the opportunity it was one of my favorite places to go are you secretly sad that you're losing control over cardano i'm very happy that cardano is growing up as a project take care good night charles well good night abraham benson roofing how do you address maxie saying proof of sake is never as secure as proof of work there's people who believe the earth is flat do you argue with them no you don't you don't argue with them at all you know arguing with a proof of work maximalness is like playing chess with a chicken it's going to knock all the pieces down on the board [ __ ] all over it and strut like it's one gen 4 is charles n yes sir we actually are coming up with a fourth generation cryptocurrency idea ah we're getting there oh multi multi-resource consensus ubiquitous inclusive accountability a broad side chain infrastructure post quantum all kinds of [ __ ] there's some there's some good stuff there good stuff please go on the lex friedman podcast again well you know if lex has me back i don't know i was probably pretty boring the first time it'd be fun to go back though but i you know i have to wait until there's more interesting things to say as a former ethereum developer curious to know if you think the merge will happen next month as predicted more likely than not probably will why don't you do amas more often recently i've been insanely busy i run four companies please tell us about planescape torment you play a blue dude who wakes up in a mortuary uh and then your best friend turns out to be a floating skull that's actually probably an aspect of merkel and you go on this amazing adventure to try to discover who you are and why when you die you can't die that you just kind of wake back up in the mortuary and life continues so uh turns out that you're called the nameless one and that you did some really horrible [ __ ] up [ __ ] and that's why you lost your name and different versions of yourself uh we're basically chasing this and then you have to go and rediscover your ancient crimes and your true identity throughout the game it's one of the best written games and it's probably one of the most interesting games ever built with the infinity engine which is the same engine that powers ice when dale and balder's gate i think there's probably over a thousand pages of dialogue in planescape torment and there's really probably never going to be a game quite like it again it was out there and it was magical and i'd highly recommend picking up the enhanced edition from i think beamdog studios released it very very very good game pretty magical makes you think oh uh i've read the book ender's game from orson scott card yes actually he wrote a lovely book on writing as well characters in viewpoint thoughts on kimball musk and square roots you know actually kimball and i were gonna have lunch one of these days i ran into him at uh consensus he's a really good guy you know he makes these beautiful gardens that he gives to schools and children learn how to garden charles don't you think cardano needs new leaders to advance yeah you should become one go do it it's your network as much as is mine nico what's the impact of proof of useful work on cardano uh none right now but it certainly could be if we were a fourth generation cryptocurrency charles if you were a woman i'd marry you well thank you paul exit only paul charles i'm a steel mill worker from pittsburgh and all in ada free time love the hoskinson center you put at cmu can i buy you a premoni sandwich next time you come in absolutely jacob absolutely i'll tweet it if you're in the area come on over define useful we have very specific mathematical definition waksat plenty of problems are isomorphic to that cardano's losing his goodwill and trust how can you be so irresponsible because of it we have lost all the money how so cause crypto market go down crypto market go up go down go up it's it's like let me show you let me show you it works ginkari okay i learned this from a movie wax on wax off ready ready one more time wax on wax off you see mark it up mark it down mark it up mark it down levity aside every metric looks great the problem is that the macro is collapsing because the markets was in a bubble and it comes down welcome to crypto it does that it's done it six times uh when i've been in the market goes up goes down you have a wax on and you have a wax off that's crypto in a nutshell you know and uh i have to clear luna i have to clear cell csf clear all these things is that my fault no it's the market charles could you ever see a hybrid proof of work proof of stake project yes i've been in the space long enough to remember pure coin which was the first good old sunny hmm what do you think about having more than one node client i couldn't agree more we need a polyglot culture you guys you do need one let's do it open source project how about that when can we see you again with maria bartoman fox business news that was great to see on the national stage awesome interview to reach a broader audience a lot of fun she's a wonderful person and i really have a lot of fun on our show so i'll keep coming on as long as they have me charles can you shout out me out man you got me through my depression well antonio here's to you seriously though planescape torment sounds rad why aren't people making video games like that anymore well it starts because the internet ruined it um red letter media aside uh the thing is that they are just the density of video games has increased enormously and there's many games that have come out in recent memory that have rich intricate plots um the problem is that if you have you have to balance the reality of certain gameplay mechanics with the desire to tell a story so you know landscape torment it's an open world in a certain respect but it's not you have well-defined maps you have a well-defined plot you have a direction and a decision tree for the player to go on but ultimately there's a finite amount of endings that are fully enumerated it's just a rich vibrant story and the person is playing it as much for the story as they are the gameplay mechanics so yes you have to overcome things and win certain battles and these types of things but ultimately you're playing to find out what happens and what influence you have over the world in which these things happen another game that i absolutely loved was arcanum it came from torika games and uh there it was just an extraordinary open world victorian steampunk world that had a hybrid of magic and technology phenomenal game absolutely phenomenal and i always thought to myself why can there not be a sequel you know but there's all kinds of creative new things that are coming out all the time new games event zero for example where you actually have like real conversations with a computer terminal and try to figure out how to convince it to help you get home um there's really cool sandbox games that have come out there's you know mega triple a studio games like red dead redemption too and uh you know things like the newest elder scrolls that's coming out which are obviously huge they have an amazing like your protagonist getting tuberculosis and dying in the game spoiler alert pretty amazing right so you know these things still do exist but the problem is the gameplay mechanics are so involved in the graphics are so involved and the and the combinatorial explosion of the decision tree is so involved it really is an extremely involved affair and it costs 50 to 100 million dollars to make a triple a game where it used to cost five million dollars to make a game in that category and it's only getting more and more involved in that respect so there will be more like planescape tournament and people will make them uh maybe i will uh but uh they're still doing it don't give up hope what was your favorite cartoon well obviously rick and morty are you worried about blackrock buying 51 percent well yeah they can buy 51 of the ada supply then we can maybe i'll do an air drop to a different chain it's the no homers chain hmm shout out to arthur morgan have you ever played diablo 2 well [ __ ] yeah i played diablo 2 even diablo 2 resurrected come on now son come on now will there be an a to burn please um no but there's certainly an abundance of paint chips a question i get when legends of valor finally a guy's paying attention finally not even working on it right now do you like old fashions ii was indeed addictive it was a dopamine factory it's a dopamine it's a dopamine proof of useful work on ethereum classic well it would have been a lot of fun to bring it to ethereum classic i'm not bitter at all you know the value we could have brought oh well speed reading test 81 complete gotta be fast gotta be fast wouldn't be prudent bro you still talking bro you still listening that says a lot more about you than me just says i have no life what to say about you charles what's your opinion on seed oils seed oils uh i've read a lot heard a lot that people seem to feel that they're poison and they're killing you from the inside out that comes a lot from the keto and paleo community and unfortunately um there's just not enough research no either way but there does seem to be a direct correlation to the introduction of seed oils wholesale into our diets in the proliferation of obesity diabetes and lifestyle diseases so there's a really interesting trend line that you can construct there and there's a very strong correlation with it somehow ansel key seems to think that fat is responsible for that we all had high fat diets before and didn't have the heart disease and the diabetes and so forth but we did introduce that and smoking and refined sugars into our diet don't know about that but i'm not a nutritionist and actually that's one of the reasons why i created the clinic that i have is that i can actually take nutritional information data hypotheses and you know run the experiment we can go find morbidly obese people that metabolically are just destroyed and have high levels of insulin and sensitivity and fix them and then see what work for them and then do the pre and post labs and see what uh what's the best way of doing it i think there's a genetic component to nutrition i also do believe that we find things probably are problematic so you have to look at that charles you seem like a fun guy me and my husband would love to meet you in person one day for like a pizza in a public place right never go full bill gates though well hang on let me see yeah no i can't do it sorry [ __ ] come on man you look great for 40. well [ __ ] you two i'm gonna fix all of it yo two years in it's gonna be a game changer i'll be in great shape i'll [ __ ] six-pack abs i'm gonna go full giga chat [Laughter] uh so is taiwan part of the united states now there's a deep and interesting history to this question and because i don't want to get banned on youtube i probably won't talk about that deep and interesting history charles have you ever seen anything you would consider to be paranormal oh absolutely i've seen some crazy [ __ ] uh come on guys give me some good questions sad you can't say what you want well if i could tell you what i want what i want what i really really want but do you care what i want what i want what i really really want you know how it all ends yeah bran becomes king because who has a better story than bran you know i rewrote the entire ending of game of thrones season seven of season eight i i was so angry about it that i actually sat down and like wrote it out on hand and one of these days i will tell you take 30 minutes to tell because it's so intricate and beautiful but christ it was it was so destroying you know it was it was just beyond bad can i tell my friends i talked to charles well blaine yes you can because you did i talk to you so you talk to me and we're happy together [Music] are you going to drink that water this agua i suppose i will okay i can drink it normal like this i can drink it mark zuckerberg style [Music] congressman charles do you recommend turn based combat of real time got me arcanum got a little my lungs um play wizard max out harm dark necromancy black magic and get your magic aptitude 100 click click click click click everything dies charles a fake intellectual as opposed to real intellectual i don't know shakira is flowing good with charles today well the hips don't lie remember my style is unblockable do you have any reason for always wearing a dress shirt i do it hides my man boobs what's phil wadler up to i miss hearing from he's still working on pluto's he's doing some great work on extended utxo and plutus oh that's right shakira actually is in some tax trouble ah yeah yeah yeah greetings ciaos from montevideo i love that country it's beautiful place charles are you jewish no why so many stake pools not upgrade to 135.3 well it just kind of came out these take a little time you know they're going to sit down with it they're going to like have a little campfire get some s'mores out there well you know the node will pull out its guitar start playing a little bit you know set the mood then all of a sudden they see the stars because the you know the the clouds will pull back and they'll just start telling stories about their life you know the things they've been through and then eventually the node and the spo will lock eyes and they'll know that they need to be together forever or until version 135.4 comes out why do you insist on attacking your most loyal supporters of cardano on twitter [Laughter] do you really think that's true ian you really just you just sit there and you're just like ah that's what he's he's just attacking the most loyal supporters you really think that's true that's what's going on he's just in your mind just just ready for that been doing this for about two hours now a thousand people are watching real time that's your shot you're like that is the question i want to ask that's that's the way i want to go come on man um you know uh what annoys me is when there's a process for something and that process works really well and it's an inclusive process and it's a productive process and it protects us as an ecosystem and a community from getting derailed and going off on tangents and it really helps people get to the heart of the matter the heart of the matter is that every person wants to upgrade to fossil because we all acknowledge that the things in vassal are good for everybody in this ecosystem it's great for the spos it's great for the exchanges it's great for the developers it's great for the ecosystem it makes cardona better that's our goal that's our end goal so the question is when are we ready to do that so the first question you ask is who decides does charles hoskinson decide until this whole incident happened a lot of people mistakenly believed in the cryptocurrency community that i do then we magically discovered that apparently there's this whole other constituency that apparently has a say in the matter more than i do so what was happening was that a negotiation was going on between the developers and the stake pool operators very healthy negotiation about what they want to see to be comfortable and lots of people showed up for that and lots of people were working at it and ultimately we're seeing real time who's comfortable and who's not comfortable currently a super majority of the spos are not comfortable so something needs to happen to make them comfortable and they told us certain things they'd like to see okay so we the developers are now working with them handing glove to put these pieces together now normal processes and communication that'd be the end of it you just keep the iteration going and keep the iteration going and keep it going until eventually it converges and then suddenly everybody's happy and when they're happy we get to our goal which is fossil comes out but what happens is that some people decided in that group to just leave that group and go to different channels and kind of talk about it in a different medium and they could do that it's a free country free speech whatever great but there's consequences to that and predictably so the consequences are that it first doesn't change that dialogue and debate where it's actually happening it doesn't change the testing it doesn't change any of the the facts on the ground that people are going to check things and do things because this is not a blind community they're smart people they do this all day sbos are among our smartest people in the community they work harder than anybody else but what it does do is create a very simple headline cardano catastrophic buck that's what sticks you go ask a person a month oh yeah i didn't car don't have a catastrophic bug didn't it fail like solana or is it dead like luna that's what you get when you go to the other medium and that's the criticism is why do you do that what do you want to accomplish what do you want to talk about we're just trying to have an open dialogue and inform people okay why not then just go and invite the podcaster to go and live stream the spo meeting where they're like tons of sbos talking to the i o people and have them get exposed to the intricacies of the zoom meeting that just happened so they can see real time the dialogue and then the story is there's a dialogue and people are working and there's checks and balances why have only two no i o representative oh well you know you guys didn't show up oh okay well did you ask our media inquiry did you go and talk to tim or ben o'hannah no because you want a sensationalist headline and why because it gets clicks you make money that's the truth and i'm the guy who calls it out the way i see it maybe i'm wrong but that's the way i see it and what i'm trying to convey is that this kind of behavior doesn't solve problems it hurts us as an ecosystem it's not my call anymore the days of charles sitting in an ivory tower cogitating about the magic of things is long over okay all i can do is make sure great code gets written inform people about things and recommend something so i did and some people didn't like the recommendation and said well we feel it should be done this way and there's a channel to discuss that and ultimately they make the personal call in that respect and that's how you get things done so i don't think i was calling people out or attacking the most loyal supporters of cardone i'm reminding people that they're accountable to what they say and the approaches that they follow here is the inescapable truth in the inescapable truth if i was nicer and better at how i approach things and how i said things how i treated people there would be no larashin book there would be no hatred of charles hoskinson in the cryptocurrency space there are certainly lies and propaganda and misinformation but some of it is self-inflicted by my approach do we want our community going and replicating that for themselves and then pretending like they've done nothing wrong and playing the victim on twitter oh they're these evil people oh no there's criticism ah i just don't understand it ah well when you go and you create a headline cardano catastrophic bug the [ __ ] you think is gonna happen it pisses a lot of people off and it causes a lot of harm and damage come on guys use your mind use your brain think about it think about the optics of what you do think about what you say i have to now everything i say i have to think more about it i used to be able to go shoot the [ __ ] tell you how i feel bark at people and what did that get me got me half the space hating me and they'll hate me for the rest of their lives i know cure cancer they'll be like ah it's a scam cure i'll take my tumors i don't trust charles i mean that's where we're at do you want to live that life do you want to go down that road you want to endure that every single day come on think about it no so why communicate that way follow the process if it's not effective the video should be we were trying to follow the process and it's not working no one's listening to us they're just rushing it through and forcing all of us to do something we don't feel comfortable with but you give it a shot no anyway and this is another lie if everyone upgraded like you told them cardano would be broken that's a lie when the test net went down was 135 and it wasn't 135 too actually it was broken all the way back with 135 other people didn't catch it i guess maybe we knew a little bit more about it there was no upgrade path there and the hard fork date got pulled and we just started looking at it and started working with people so some of the people started upgrading to 135 2 of their own free will and it was discovered on main net that there was an issue but that was still under test and we discovered it as well okay so we both discovered it great but now with 135 3 we're in a position where we have confidence in it and it is running with about 20 of the notes on main net in a mixed note environment they're able to communicate with each other they're able to make blocks and yeah 135.3 is going to survive a hard fork on the pre-production so it'll run and the code that's already survived a hard fork before on 135 will run so cardano would not be broken but this is the lie that was told cardano was broken never got broken never was even at risk of being broken bugs were discovered too late in the process for my comfort but they were discovered it's that simple but you've taken a lie and you've absorbed it there are checks and balances and layers of testing there are literally thousands of people from exchanges to stake pool operators to our qa people to the foundation qa people that every day wake up and get involved in this and at some point you stumble on something and every now and then a [ __ ] up happens as we saw and yeah fix it you move on but then if you say well we need a test we have to test you have to say okay well what are we going to test and that was that dialogue don't you see that's the system working it doesn't work you start the dialogue and what happens they start saying well actually maybe this test scenario needs to be done this test scenario needs to be done some people are saying resurrect the test net well it's broken right now 135 too don't work uh yeah maybe we can find a way to patch work get it working again but what real material value does that provide to getting us to our goal which is getting vossel out it won't give us any more assurance in the software will it no it will just maybe recover some of that history and that's a parallel effort that should be explored but for different reasons uh disaster recovery mitigation of damage these types of things better tooling better discussions about how to spin up test nets but with the pre-production plan the thing we outlined in all the communication you can achieve the same ends of testing a mixed node environment and all kinds of things and demonstrating functionality works you know it's that simple now is it perfect no but that's the nature of software development that's the nature of these types of things that's the nature of having checks and balances but you see you say that and you don't really know the core of that that's the issue you know and do we have egg on our face sure we wrote the software so by definition we're at fault it's that simple buck stops there do we fix it yeah okay it's not the first bug cardano's had dozens of really intricate unique weird bugs that could have become very problematic had they persisted by the way bitcoin did too there was an inflation bug in bitcoin that would allow you to create bitcoin out of thin air billions of them google bitcoin inflation book happens you fix it you move on and you mitigate the damage and that's what's been done and now that dialogue's happening more testing is being done and at some point we'll hit that magic 75 number maybe soon maybe long because it depends on people's testing preferences but we'll hit it and then the countdown begins and the hfc event is triggered and we move post-vassal and we go to the next horizon now after that big post-mortem we'll talk about why did this slip through and where did the communication break down and these types of things and how do we do better and then moving forward certain things will be made more explicit including the stage upgrade process and will tighten up communication with certain core constituencies i fully agree it wasn't optimal that's fine but the solution is you make it better and you work together in channels not a part in channels why weren't we there in that conversation that dialogue because it served no purpose for the narrative that wanted to be there we'd have been happy to be there but we weren't and it caused damage that's the umbrage and that's the thing that's what you have to think about but gathering test conditions from all spos ensure better testing no it just gets more testing you know because reality is that they're going to be running it in different environments different hardware configurations different geographies different latencies different internet connections um different operating systems you know you name it and more is better in these types of things and there are definitely some holes that really do need to be examined um and i'm very interested myself in the post-mortem uh because it just felt like we were there and then we weren't and it's bizarre how that slipped through and i'm not sure where that came from and you know we looked at everything we got deeply into it and people worked really hard to clean it up and you know for the most part it feels pretty good and it's important to understand that the vast majority of the code from 135 is untouched meaning it survived a huge amount of qa again and again and again and again so um you know this is just the reality the fact the system is getting really complicated which means that it's outgrown its testing harness and we need a better testing harness and more testing scenarios um hmm thoughts on continuous glucose monitor i'll show you guys one of the coolest use cases i've seen with a continuous glucose monitor so there's a great youtube channel called what i've learned and he actually just released a beautiful video where he did a seven day fast so no food just to fast and let me post that here yeah so here's the video and the channels what i've learned so anyway um he wore a continuous glucose monitor while he was fasting and kept a mood journal at the same time and what was amazing is that the mood journal was actually tracking his blood sugar levels perfectly so when they went down his mood went down when they stabilized his mood went up and uh you know he also tried to balance his salt intake and magnesium potassium intake with uh these other things so i highly recommend watching that video but it's pretty cool you usually put them under the arm they go click and then they give you real-time data for i think two weeks um you ever play fallout new vegas yes sir mr house for the win he had a vision favorite chap chess player of all time nimzowitz doctor is going to get a blood sample if you go to the hospital they can't rely on a cgm um even if they can't rely on it for clinical applications you can rely on it for steering applications because the odds are that while it might be not sensitive or accurate enough for a diagnosis of a disease it can give you a general direction it's kind of like a scale so your scale at home is probably not as accurate as the scale at the doctor's office probably not as accurate as a dexa scan probably not as accurate as you know even more sophisticated way of looking at body composition but it's not the case that the scale at home is going to say 150 pounds but the dexa scan is going to say 220. they're going to be close to each other but you get more information and more interesting information intricate information with the dexa like your visceral fat and the extracellular water and you know these other things that matter the muscle to fat to ratio these types of things so you know you look at cgm as a steer and then you can start looking at specific questions like uh when i eat this food type versus this food type do i get a substantial spike in my glycemic index just like suddenly my insulin go way up and my glucose levels are really high these types of things uh and so you know for example if i go take a you know a spoonful of table sugar versus eating some broccoli what does this do to my blood sugar and how dramatic is it and i suspect there's pretty strong genetic and microbiome components to these things so everybody's different in that respect and it's entirely possible that somebody could eat a carrot and not have a strong response and other people eat it and have a much stronger response and that means a lot because certain foods that raise those indices they also tend to raise your ghrelin they tend to raise a lot of other things and what that translates to is more hunger more weight gain and also more of the macros get converted to fat and so much harder to meet your diet goals in a sense so cmg with some cleverness behind it is a good steering tool to help you figure out metabolically what's going on it's not a steering tool to diagnose which is why you have to go deeper and you know find out more so as with all tools it's about how you use the tools how will we manage to reduce global co2 emissions if steak is so delicious plant-based meat the solution or carbon capture carbon air capture powered by nuclear power you told us about your blackhawk now tell us about your boat well that's very easy i don't own a boat would you rather eat dog crap or shake anthony fauci's hand could i put the dog crap on fountji's hand i'm just looking at my boundaries here charles it's hospital policy is why you can't use it it's likely more accurate than the hospital's glucometer could be right but you know let's be fair there are plenty of tests that they can run that give you a lot more information it's like when you're looking at thyroid stimulating hormone right you can grow a whole panel on these things and get very deep are you trump or biden just curious i vote libertarian guys so i'm so far away from that talk about mr tippers mr tippers is having a great day just got picked up he's actually heading up to wyoming right now um is your restaurant open no nessies will not be open until next year uh it's very hard to source contractors in wheatland wyoming uh but we are definitely working on it i got my first design um video from the architect and the interior designer and uh it looks really good there's a lot of work we're doing on the atrium we're actually going to hang the pl originally i wanted to please see a sore in the basement with the neck coming up but we're actually going to hang the plesiosaur in the atrium and you're drinking whiskey you can look up at it and the people on the first floor can look out the window at the palestia store coming at them which also allows us to put a waterfall that goes into kind of a crude lake that we put in so a lot of progress on it and we're really moving forward it's just there's a lot that's going into the restaurant and it's really hard to source labor plus we have to train the staff and it's going to take at least six months to train the chefs to know how to cook scottish food do you prefer pellet grills or charcoal smokers i have a trigger what kind of a restaurant is nessie's the loch ness monster restaurant nessies the restaurant that is inspired by the loch ness monster what is your favorite gun of all time i have this glock 19 that's from shadow systems absolutely amazing although there's this 1911 that's got this staccato slide on that's just [ __ ] cool a lot of fun good good to run a speed drill with on steel dislike trigger safety you guys you guys you've ever had a breathalyzer in your car no i don't even drink guys does nessie spell as a sir plesiosaur meat no hmm will you play bald earth gate 3 of course i will those guys are great liar but what um all right looks like we'll uh cut it here let's see if there's any final questions um here we go this good way to end it have you ever bought porn at the truck stop in chuck water this guy knows his pornography and his truck stops uh right above the [ __ ] lex friedman i didn't even know alex is still watching or i'll give lex the final one no no but there's a milkshake shop in chugwater that is absolutely phenomenal they have a soda fountain that's been there for over a hundred years best milkshakes you'll ever have baldar's gate 3 if real i'm in it israel larian studios is making it early release one of the best soundtracks you'll ever listen to for a video game and i really did enjoy it and it's just great and magical um problem with early release is that you get hooked and then they kill your dog you know you just it's you're just getting into it and then the game ends uh but they've been releasing a patch by patch they're about patch eight i think and i think the full game will probably come out next year but it's really shaping up to be something phenomenal and special and uh it exceeded my expectations uh where they actually managed to take something inspired by a prior art and make it better in a certain respect uh and modernize it in a certain respect and they still kept the soul of what made uh the divinity theories really good and uh balder's gate really good so highly recommend it um and those guys are phenomenal and actually you should definitely see if you can get the head of the studio on your podcast because he really gets game development like john does and the others do and they just get rpg development as well and they've just had so many phenomenal hits and beautiful worlds and beautiful storytelling and so forth so as paul harvey likes to say that's the rest of the story thank you guys for listening it has been a very very very long day for me i am going to go sleep for the weekend until next time
