hi everybody this is Charles Hoskinson broadcasting live from my fortress of solitude in warm sunny Colorado it's 7:31 p.m. I'm having a great Sunday I went for a lovely Drive and decided to go back to the office get a lot of work done and been working hard and I'm just about to close out the day but you know I realized I haven't done a Sunday AMA in a very long time so it's about time we do an AMA those watching please do share on your social links share on telegram share all around and it's always nice to get your questions hear from you and as this is an AMA not an update we'll start right with the questions let's see what we got Cardinal community gets so much [ __ ] we do because everybody's scared of us man no one can match us no one can catch us Cardno is gonna win and even if we don't it's gonna be one hell of a fight see here first question why are you doing this during a primary debate do you guys really care let's let's get into that okay so you got Joe Biden versus Bernie Sanders and here's what's gonna happen Biden's gonna win the primary because he was selected to win the primary if you guys think you actually have a choice in the Democratic Party yeah how was 2016 with Hillary Clinton or for that matter any of these primaries it's rigged it was a choice between dementia and communism the party would much rather deal with dementia what's really interesting those who's Biden gonna pick for his VP I I'm gonna hazard a guess this is one of those Hail Mary out there ideas I think it's Bill Gates see he just recently stepped down from the board of Microsoft and Berkshire Hathaway okay let's see here when Shelly main it sooner than you think why is ADA so low because everything else is low and when everything else goes back up it goes back up real decoupling takes years fix for Catalina s ITN working on it there's some Apple issues ketogenic diet fasting to protect yourself from coronavirus hope it does work let you guys know I got my fresh mints over there yeah those plants are nice man Charles how likely do you think this is a recession in progress I think not only as a recession begun we're starting to see the unraveling of the world financial order the United States today just cut the interest rates to 0% just conceptually think about that government's saying hey yeah borrow money at no cost money's free now just go take it loan it out create as much money as you want it's it's not a sustainable system we've been saying it for a long time you can kind of hold up the tides as long as people believe in it but the minute you have a global event like global war or a pandemic the financial order comes crumbling down so I don't think they can hold on much longer do you think bitcoins going to zero no bitcoins going up and everything else is going up after we get over this initial bump you see guys what this crisis needs to demonstrate for all of you myself included is people panic people succumb to fear look at the shortages of toilet paper in the United States I mean if you're really honestly concerned that we're gonna run out of toilet paper why don't you just buy a bidet but no no people just don't know what to do so they're running out buying toilet paper until we run out of it so they have to ask yourself what kind of panic will ensue the minute that a single bank or our collection of banks tells people that they can no longer access their money that they can only withdraw a certain amount of money per day or puts restrictions on what they can buy where they can spend that money do you think that's not going to create a global financial panic where people start creating bank runs and buying crypto assets like crazy it will happen at some point we can't have trillion-dollar quantitative easing and stimulus packages and zero percent or negative percent interest rates you just can't do it you can't do that if you do it too long the system will start crunching and then these of if they're too heavy will force a banking crisis and that's going to be the time for crypto the shine can't tell you when it's gonna happen but I tell you it will happen and when it does that's our time and we're building for that how is the Macan marketing campaign going terrible absolutely terrible I'm not so happy yes this is business between the foundation and McCann I didn't like the pitch that they did gave us and I gave a lot of feedback I think they're planning on a new pitch and I hope this one's better but I was not very happy with it you know yeah we've worked with McCann before on different projects I was quite happy with them on that but for some reason with Cardno they just had a lot of difficulty getting to a point where they could create a unique USP maybe it was just too early in the process but this process has been going on for months and I was expecting more output so that's all I'll say about that but I've always been a direct blunt person and as I am a consumer of this process not the primary client I do get to openly criticize them from time to time much to McCann's dismay time to refinance your homes you had time to buy gold guns and ammo when will Daedalus support multiple crypto currencies one of these days working on it Biden just committed during a debate to nominating a female VP let's see if he can remember that and if he does then probably someone young what do you think of maker day I was late as trouble in the impact of defy on the world card auto in the space well it doesn't impact us that's an aetherium issue but it does give you guys an indication of how incredibly difficult it is to create a financial product that is sustainable and stable in different market conditions if it was so easy to create stable value then central banks would be an easy affair the fact that this was attempted to do with one of the most volatile assets in the world really shows you that creating a stable coin and algorithmic stable coin news his task and it's not one to be taken lightly and there was a bit of a feeling for a while like they had mission accomplished and recent events show that not so much and you know it's just back to the drawing board Charles are you ever visiting New Zealand one of these days I'll go because I want to go to Fiji in Tuvalu and Tonga and so forth so absolutely we'll go but right now the whole world is kind of shut down all right now let's talk about formal verification this is an interesting one is this formal verification matters so the process of formal verification to ask questions to think carefully about what you want to do is really the key value driver for formal verification so formal verification doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna write great software or write software that does what you think it's going to do you still because of flaws in the design of the system or you just misunderstood what problems you were trying to solve could write perfect code that's useless or imperfect code however the process of doing formal verification forces you to think above the code and think about the problem the domain the design and really start asking deep questions about how you're going to update it how you're going to maintain it what things mean why you're doing what you're doing and if those things are reasonable or sensible this is a tremendously valuable exercise and it's one that does not require an extensive use of resources if you're very interested in a fast-paced way of doing formal methods practical TLA plus is a wonderful book and there's a lot of good ideas and examples there and Grahm even did some YouTube videos about it that's a great entry point into formal methods that does not require an in-depth knowledge of deductive logic and you know the dependent types and these types of things you just can read the book and as long as you have enough programming experience you can easily ease into it and still write some great models and you'll very quickly see the power of it Leslie Lamport has also done so wonderful videos on TL a-plus in particular explaining the value of it as a system and that's a good entry point into formal methods Charles do you expect Cardinal to be listed on a new major crypto exchange in 2020 yes several hydros and I've changed scaling solutions so how about on enchant scaling like such hey you don't need it you just don't need it guys Hydra plus what we can do if card on all alone is enough to be a global scale system we do not need to do ledger base charting we can get aura Boris the protocol one shard one chain up to 1000 TPS that's visa scale for the average load of their system not their peak throughput but for the average daily load of the system and then with Hydra you can get as far as you want to go to reach that kind of capacity we would be talking about tens if not hundreds of millions of users in the system and at that point we need a fundamentally new Network stack we need a fundamentally new way of handling the data flows so we need recursive snarks to preserve our inclusive accountability and yell ventually we'd need let your shouting we know how to do it but there's trade-offs with it so just go with a single ledger approach with a letter to and that's enough to cover the next five to ten years of growth of the system even to unreasonable demands like a hundred million users Jack Johnson I bet you knew this was going to happen with all this from the Satoshi roundtable right well I knew a global pandemic was coming I didn't want to believe it but all the evidence pointed in that direction and I was listening to John Campbell since January and others and I was even a member of certain telegram groups that were talking about this as early as December and I had people in China sending me emails and messages so we were definitely tracking it at i/o HK and after certain thresholds were met we decided to go into pandemic mode I'm sad it's here but I mean Bill Gates was warning the world about this in 2015 there's a vice documentary on it vice video is the viral reboot still being released this month Aparna does all the dates but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be Charles are you buying carnival stock I'll hold off by any travel related to talk although if you're really crazy really really crazy you might want to actually go along on the travel guys because they might get a bailout you know with all this Mickey Mouse money we have now quantum computer engineering what are your thoughts be more specific crypto Ken am i Jewish no Italian Catholic no Jewish blood in the family Naseer greetings from Iraq what will the Dedalus Wallach it update work on Mac I will find out for you we've been having some difficulty with the certificate process we had a switch over and Apple was supposed to give us new credentials and we've been waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting to delay is not on our side it's on Apple side and it's just been extremely frustrating they have historically been very slow and you have to do these things and rotate credentials Microsoft is much faster and much easier to work with huskily doesn't sound Italian no he was prata you seem to protoss you he was Italian you see him over the hats we piace Italia not to panic Charles is it possible to mention some of the current challenges you are facing which need to be solved before you announce to Shelly launch there aren't any problems we know exactly what to do we have all the work quantified we have the Sprint's lined out to a point where I have these beautiful pictures and it says s six and a seven eight and s nine for sprints and I know exactly where everything's at I know the date for Shelly but the problem is that I don't know if they're gonna get it all done they say all of this work is gonna get done in s 7 it might get 75% done and we have to roll some of it over and TS 8 because something comes up like we have a CI issue or somebody gets sick or yada yada yada so what I'm waiting for is that we get closer to that launch date second that we actually demonstrate shipping of the core software required there are two pieces one is the byron reboot because that's the foundation 80% of code similarly with the Shelly codebase so that is a great indicator of the quality of what Shelly's going to look like and a great indicator that Shelly's nearly ready and the other is the shipping of the Shelly Haskell test that and then it's just a question of you know what is good enough for the market but it's no longer situation of well do we know how to do something or not know how to do something it's a situation where we have a giant pile of work it's called a feature backlog we've chopped it all up we put it into sprints we roughly know when those friends will be done and how they're done their two-week sprints and I see them burning down and that's why I say we have confidence intervals now and so we're in a situation where we have a pretty good confidence interval for the shipping of Shelly but I need as a CEO because I've been burned so many times by bad estimation under old processes to see some things that tell me otherwise so biron reboot in the shell we has cold testament once those two events happen then we're a hundred percent coffin those pictures those beautiful pictures were seeing and the velocity behind those pictures and those prints are accurate and if that's the case then the band I have is something that can be made publicly available but I have I'm very confident Shelly's shipping soon it's just you know we have to see and make sure that that velocity is where it needs to be I understand it's frustrating but guys we're in a market condition right now where you launch Shelley it's actually not going to significantly impact the price of Aida so if you're hoping for Cardno to somehow like become a top three cryptocurrency the minute that Shelley comes out I think you're you're setting yourself up for unrealistic expectations and failure this is the biggest milestone in the project's history it's a very significant one I'm gonna be super proud when it comes out as our entire community will be you could tell everybody who says we're just a wallet to go [ __ ] themselves seriously I'll say it again and go [ __ ] yourself I cannot overemphasize how much if the [ __ ] yourself has to happen to these people who say that because it's so hurtful and just unbelievably stupid and you can then point that in their face and make them feel like garbage because they are garbage but it's not going to have major impact because I mean the Federals are printed seven hundred billion dollars and cut interest rates to zero and the markets aren't going up if you can print nearly a damn near trillion dollars out of thin air and you can't have fluence the park hits we are not in a position where markets are rational they're very fragile they're very bitter they're very volatile and no news item is going to be bigger than the prospects of a global pandemic telling the world killing 50 million people this must pass for everything to go back to where it was before it came before Korona hit the markets were starting to go back up crypto winter had ended crypto summer was starting and we were looking at a lot of great events from the happening to the launch of Shelley and so forth so I'm sorry to say that this is the environment that we're in and buckle up it's going to be one hell of a ride but remember I'm not here and I've told you repeatedly to wake up and see dollar eight or ten dollar eight or $100 EDA I'm here to build the world's best crypto currency and I'm here to make it as commercially viable as possible and make it a great platform for billions of people to build great experiences it just so happens that if I succeed in that goal and make it self-sustaining it to centralize that Cardinal will become just by Network effect the most valuable network on the planet so that is a secondary impact to the primary goal of making Cardinal great and useful for everybody I cannot tell you when and how price will appreciate that's a function of speculation and a function of market volatility and it's a function of natural demand all I can tell you is that we at i/o HK wake up every single day and we think a lot about delivery and we know what we need to do to make Cardinal the best cryptocurrency on the planet and we know what we need to do to commercialize the platform and get people to use it and opt it and we know what we need to do to integrate with the existing cryptocurrency space and infrastructure whether it be wallets and exchanges or it be third party applications and we're going to do that every day we can and we're gonna try to make this ecosystem as sustainable as possible so that we can be around to keep doing that for a long long time I'm a young guy it would be very easy for me to spend ten or twenty or thirty years in this ecosystem be a lot of fun too because we could just keep upping the ante and adding more capabilities and making the system go great but nothing we can announce is going to overcome the global pandemic and also macro events are leading the markets right now so if a single bank run happens Bitcoin could go to $100,000 or Bitcoin could collapse to a thousand dollars because of short sellers and other events in the markets so you just have to be careful this is a very risky risky time where great fortunes will be made lost why do you think ADA will surpass Bitcoin because I think we have more utility and we're just a significantly better cryptocurrency and the first offer the same security principles with none of the downside so it makes no sense for a Bitcoin to rule the roost we're really the first ones to come at it with the same overall technological goals of Bitcoin but do so in a way that vastly surpass it Bitcoin has UT Excel we have extended you TXO Bitcoin has all these very nice security properties approved work we found a way to match all of those security properties so we get smart contracts Bitcoin really doesn't have good ones we get much easier lair to stuff Bitcoin is super painful to do it they have to spend more power in the country of Switzerland we spend 10 kilowatts you see the pattern every single thing we out match them and so given that we have so much utility and we can complete the entire enhanced transactions so the asset the identity component the metadata component the contractual component as well as the regulatory component given that we can do all those things in Bitcoin cannot there's just no reason to use Bitcoin as a medium of exchange or as a DAP platform the only thing it can be is a good store value and I believe firmly it will maintain that status and it will still be a multi-billion dollar ecosystem but it's just like gold and a global economy it's just one of many options and it has its place in purpose but it doesn't do everything is the K framework still a thing yes it's a big project out of University of Illinois urbana-champaign Gregorio Shu still wakes up every day for 15 years he's worked on K this is one of the philosophical points of what we do at ìoh cabe we invest in brilliant people who have a consistent track record of waking up every day sometimes for decades and basically pushing for their ideas this is one of the reasons we hired Phil Wadler for example since the 1980s Wadler has been a huge advocate of functional programming he created the Haskell programming language with others his philosophy philosophy of how good programming should be done and how person should think about computing has never changed it's always been refined and augmented but he's really a example of this concept of code owari this relentless pursuit of perfection and so we brought him in to design Plutus as really the apex of the twilight of his career to give him a chance to aggregate all the lessons learned from those 25,000 citations and dozens and dozens and dozens of prominent papers and put it into something that would allow the next generation of functional programmers to do much better things in the prior generation so with more developer productivity less code better testability and ultimately better verification of correctness so we invested in Phil so that he could give us that and he has that track record and long before I was born Phil Wadler was doing these things and long after he's dead his students will be doing these things the same for Gregory Roshi he's been doing case and for about 15 years now he created his own logic called reachability logic for it with or without our money he wakes up every day and he's decay guy writing papers every year pushing very hard every year and runtime verifications a great company in fact I think we have come up with a way and we'll start collaborating hopefully with our V to refund what we originally wanted to do with semantics based compilation and K and yella and hopefully find a path to gradually get that into car to this day that was one of my saddest moments when we saw the markets collapse from a dollar 28 into this we didn't have the runway to do luxuries anymore and so that that luxury of having two computing models extended you TXO and yella had to be reduced to one and it made more sense to do extended UTX o because that's so useful for Hydra that said it's always been a desire of mine to bring SBC back into the carbonyl ecosystem and to build up yellow in the ecosystem around yella that's unfinished business so we're gonna do everything in our power at the Iowa K side to try to make sure that that side of the ecosystem can get refunded and hopefully the second half of this year that will be possible and well of course make announcements where and when that makes sense but our V had was a great company to work with Gregorius a man of enormous integrity and he has some of the most brilliant people on his team who were just a joy to talk to and I really enjoyed flying out there about a champagne very small airport and the planes get delayed often but I really enjoyed flying out there and I really enjoyed spending time with that black dog and you know eating the barbecue there and unfortunately I had this habit of flying out while it was fasting so a lot of the times they were eating and I wasn't which was really nasty because that's good barbecue there's an article on quantum computing that will have power to disrupt bitcoins mining protocol on proof-of-work is this true now I wouldn't worry about quantum computing or its ability to affect improve of work proof of work is mostly secure from product computers is the underlying public key crypto is not secure so there needs to be some changes made there but post quantum crypto is among one of the fastest growing in most studied areas of cryptography and there are wonderful signature schemes like X MSS and things like lattice based signatures the crystals framework and Delicia more examples of that from Peter Schwab a in fact we're working with Peter Schwab a and we will have some variant of X MSS or some hash based crypto for signing of Cardinal blocks and that's a one very necessary step not the only step but a very necessary step to to get us to post quantum to get us to quantum computer immunity we still also need a post quantum vrf and there's a litany of other little things we need to clean up against the quantum adversary and we have done the work to start modeling block chains against a quantum adversary but this is definitely a big research surge that would be required however the time horizon of when commercially available quantum computers would actually be applied to hurt cryptocurrencies compared to where the crypto is at they're not even close to matching each other we're not gonna look for commercially available quantum computation for fifteen to thirty years somewhere in that time horizon and within three to five years we will have satisfied all of the mathematical foundations of post quantum crypto and gotten that post quantum crypto like the V RFS and the signature schemes into cryptocurrencies and even in more advanced primitives like snarks for example Starks are already post quantum it's one of the reasons why they're so large I just finished the 30-day fast what was your longest Charles think two weeks I can't remember somewhere around that amount it was very hard Charles if you weren't working on card ah no what other project would you like to work on there are several really interesting cryptocurrency ideas I'd love to do something involving freedom of association commerce and expression bundling all of them together and hopefully we can get to that I'd love to resurrect the cube adidas project in create a marketplace for deduction that's unfinished business from my mathematical roots I studied analytic number theory but if I could do it all again I'd probably be a computation logician I've fallen in love with proof assistance and things like [ __ ] and lean and Agda and this concept of treating a mathematical proof as a mathematical object onto itself that can be operated on and the compilation of that object verifies as the proof is correct a very powerful thing it's it's almost to Hilbert's demon where you know he was thinking that you just built this universal machine that would prove things and it turns out that well that's not possible and that's actually what led to the birth of computer science the field of computation yeah in the general sense in the particular sense there are ways of reconstructing mathematics like homo topi type theory to make mathematics very understandable by computers and it would be really interesting to create a financial incentive for people to write mathematical proofs and thus there can be a gold rush for graduate students and professional mathematicians alike could actually derive a substantial amount of income just doing math and creating a marketplace for deduction so there was a project called Kiva Dita's that we inherited from an alias named bill white I promised bill that we would get around to doing something with it I was planning on doing something last year but Cardno kinda has been in the way of that so hopefully what scarred out I was a little bit more evolved that can be a project we can resurrect that polina will probably be the product manager or the technical protect she's a logician that works for us and wonderfully smart gal and uniquely qualified to actually handle that and actually the components of Cardno could be mostly reused there we would use or Boris's the consensus algorithm we've reused the network stack and the wallet back on so realistically we just need to write the legend rules and I'd probably like write them at lean for when lean four is available and then the deduction engine and get all the logic right there's a hundred page reference manual still on our website about QD a distance also in key ideas org QED I TAS org i stands for QED quod erat demonstrandum which is that which has been shown it's what mathematicians read at the end of a proof although I always wrote w5 which is what we wanted or it with a he'll most mark and it but anyway that's a project I've always wanted to do and that'd be a lot of fun on the hobby side I'm getting a lot into controlled environment agriculture I got a farm as many if you know I grow hay feed it's a farm animals and getting some irrigation this year for it super interesting set up some hydroponic aquaponic greenhouses and grow some nice exotic fruits and vegetables what is brand name and model of your piano keyboard I have a Yamaha those up rate digital pianos that has proper key weighting it plays like a Steinway grand it's absolutely amazing little piano and it sounds really nice they sampled a Bulls and/or fur and a Yamaha D 290 and both of them sampled beautifully well and the speakers are quite good on it so it feels like a grand piano it plays like a grand piano and it sounds like a grand piano even though it's a digital upright and it was a lot cheaper than a nine-foot grand I have a nice ranch home but it's not big enough for a nine-foot grand so I so I went out and got it you don't have to tune it either really nice for Beethoven Chopin and very light touch of keyboard Charles has there been any progress in implementing halo into Cardno it's not in scope for Cardinal halos interesting we love it recursive Starks are super cool you're gonna have to pay us to do it it's not in scope so that would be something for example that I which K could do post-2020 so when we go to the community and say hey we'd like to do another three to five years that sure as hell is going to be in the scope of work and I think it's something that would be a huge competitive differentiator but just because we do interesting research doesn't mean all of it ends up in Cardno you know at some point you have to re-up and that's an example of the value that comes from the next generation Charles can you talk about the protocol of polymath I came on board polymath as an advisor and helped them come up with a commercial strategy they chose to use parodies substrate and I think they're gonna deliver that to market at some point my time as a consultant was just one year and it's coming to an end I had I don't think I can add a lot more value to that team they've chosen a commercial path that is a bit divergent from the types of things that I work on but it's a good team I like Thomas I like Trevor and the rest of the gang and I wish him well and I really hope that what they've constructed with polymesh ends up becoming a successful protocol you know security tokens are an interesting industry and it was fun to be part of something where I got to learn a lot about them and talk a lot about the requisite technology that goes into it so it's going to be interesting to see where they take it and how they get it to where it needs to go and it was a good year that's the problem with being a consultant you can only have so much impact and all consultancies come to an end eventually and you kind of have to just watch them move on and wish for the best it's like the kids leave home or something you you don't really have control after that pumpkin pie and why because it's delicious I've never liked apple pie it's a texture thing is etherium gonna get [ __ ] hasn't never not been how old are you Charles I'm 32 turning 33 this year I used to be the youngest guy in the room but slowly but surely I'm starting to get older you can see the white hair seeping its way into the beard as CEO does the price of Eden know you given the current market situation and how far the project has come so far not really I don't get bothered too much by it I mean the reality is people talk about the price if people have a stake in the price at the end of the day what matters to me as I do the job I was hired to do you know we said we are gonna go do first principles research create a whole slew of scientific validated protocols and then use evidence-based software development to implement those protocols should we do all of that I can really say I've done something special and delivered something special not just a great piece of software that's beautiful and elegant and capable of doing lots of things but I've left behind to process that if followed will guarantee that our software will always be the most advanced always be the most decentralized and never have a cult of personality so as much as people love me it makes me unnecessary and irrelevant in a long-term so they might venerate the things that I did but they won't require me to be in the room to be able to make a decision and that's ultimately the key to success with cryptocurrencies you cannot have a founder and if you do have a founder you need to find a way to get rid of that founder at least from a power perspective as quickly as you can so I'm very proud of the process we created a very proud of the idea as we brought to bear and I firmly believe that those ideas are valuable and that in time the market will come to appreciate them reward the followers of this ecosystem accordingly as for the day to day prices the reality is crypto is heavily manipulated and very thin and there's not a lot of truth or reality and it's a game where very clever people victimize retail investors regularly we've seen this happen time and again from ICO mania to a whole bunch of confident scams to exchanges with fake volume and so forth and it's one of the principal reasons why the SEC does not approve the ETF so why should i concern myself with a vanity metric that is manipulated on a regular basis I should concern myself with our population if you build something with a million people using it it's valuable if you build something with a billion people using it you are Microsoft or Facebook or Google or Amazon you're at that scale and you create that much value you will employ hundreds of thousands if not millions of people and you'll create all kinds of new wealth this is the game rafter not the arbitrary token price day-to-day you can't win that fight and if you start playing it you end up looking a lot like Tron and you lose credibility very rapidly Charles what was the PwC partnership all about PwC came in to create a unified commercial strategy in conjunction with emerge Ohio which came the CF so we spent about eight weeks of preparatory work and then we had a workshop in London in early March and the conclusion that workshop was a humungous list of to do's and a kind of a unified strategy for all of us was an overwhelmingly successful workshop and we really did enjoy it and I think it's going to add a lot of long-term value to cart nada what is around your neck this is a caboose Oh whistle when is the release of captain card on Oh we should create captain card on Oh as our Virgin of crypto kitties that'd be a fun application that create your up in sunny blackhawk I love sunny Black Hawk Black Hawks a beautiful town Morrison's beautiful town to you I love Red Rocks what the [ __ ] is this [ __ ] it's my [ __ ] and it's quite good what's your [ __ ] about how do you pick questions your ma I just pick whatever I feel about like the answering I look at him I say hey there you go what computer language should I learn to understand ADA smart contracts Haskell for the moment yeah but that's a component of the broader picture Charles how is a the transactions verified Thanks I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that can you ask a more specific question try it again how was I which K being funded through business we're a commercial entity we do contract work people pass we do stuff how do you think car dot will be faster than hadera hash breath why do you care about speed I just told you that we're going to be a global scale system we can sustain 100 million people if we wanted to once everything's turned on so why we got fast finality we got you know really short block time we got everything you asked for guys why do you care get to a point where you need to scale believe it or not it's a good problem to have congestion it means people are actually using your software productive congestion it's a good thing it's like you own a store you see tons of people in it you're like okay I'm doing good business here well how do we get our checkout lines to be faster you can always build more but it's nice to have them congested it makes you feel good stores successful you guys are crazy what kind of features are you looking to explore with Z cache the most interesting paper Z cash wrote was halo we love recursive snarks we created our own snark it's much better than theirs it's called Sonics and we finished implementing it well you leave the card on a project before it's a hundred percent completed and working proof perfectly we will not leave the project until we complete the roadmap as specified so we will make substantive progress with Vasya Voltaire Shelley Cogan and Byron Byron reboot is the end of Byron it's everything that ever could have been imagined or done with Byron and that's shipping incredibly soon like really soon and then Shelley is well underway and there's a clear and understanding of what that means getting to a point where the network can gradually decentralize over time and get more decentralized Gogan is smart contracts the into extended ETF so model is designed and Plutus this design Marlow is design it's just pulling them into ledger that's Gogan Basho is some approach towards fold to Hydra and being able to do risk that approach so that when it's needed it can be plugged in to card ah no it's not needed right now you don't need that kind of scale i and volt error is getting a function and governance system where you can vote and you have a way of resolving who pays and who decides and moving all development onto the CIP process we will stick around till that stuff gets done even if it cost me extra money because that's what we're in scope to do what's not in scope is to stick around for 25 years and commercialize every aspect for free and endlessly work on the project can bug fix and helpdesk the whole point of having a Treasury is to create a funding source for these ongoing maintenance efforts for not only ourselves but others the whole point of having a Treasury's allow us to chase next generation protocols we have probably will put in a post quantum signature scheme for a card out on for block signing but we just came up with this incredible thing called one-shot signatures that means the signatures you physically can only use once and it's super cool idea it's born of quantum cryptography that's not in scope nor our recursive snarks nor right now is yella so or a full and an Rina these things are not in scope they're nice to have but they would require years of additional development effort to pull into car data so these would constitute what we'd asked for for a Treasury ballot for moving beyond 2020 so the point is to get enough infrastructure where we can legitimately ask for these things and I think the community would definitely want to go for round 2 especially considering that our velocities massively up scaled so we would be uniquely positioned to deliver these to market faster than any other vendor and cheaper than any other vendor but if they want to go in a different direction it's actually an imperative of the Cardano foundation to create diversity in the development ecosystem so the community has options and then we can compete against each other that's what decentralization is all about not know big contracts and one vendor but it's about having multiple options and choosing the best amongst them could you see card on oh I wish keep working on our many years with the Treasury system yes these IOH came working on an SDK for developers yes we consider that commercially critical infrastructure we are on both the wallet side and on the Bluetooth side are you promoting any kovat measures at IOH k we are a decentralized company people mostly work from home we stopped all non-essential travel and is CEO and no longer traveling I cancelled all of my travel plans and I am just staying in warm sunny Colorado mostly here in Longmont going between my ranch and the office so and I don't interact with many people so I've been trying to just wait it out Charles is a true that Chili's being postponed no and shoot whoever told you that Justin Fujimoto how are you liking the state pool operator intro videos so far I am loving them it's so cool to see that you know I don't really care what you guys say as long as it's okay I mean if you really brutally attack the project or say like we all need to come to Jesus or something or Allah is your Savior it's not really in scope for stake pool video although maybe I would even retweet that but basically it's your opportunity to tell the world who you are what you do why you're doing it and why you joined the ecosystem and why you care and what you're gonna do with your pool and why people should delegate to you I don't take sides I'm not endorsing these videos rather I'm just trying to give visibility to people who have actually spent the time to contribute and operate us long term those operators will end up being the governing class of Cardinal the operators of Cardano they're the ones who make the blocks they're the ones who actually keep the network running not us and if we are to aspire to be decentralize we need a very diverse group of them who actually disagree with each other in some cases don't even like each other because that guarantees that they won't collude and cheat so this is just a small little fun campaign but it's a very meaningful one and it's one to show how many unique people are actually doing things with cardano's so the more the merrier and it's your opportunity to have a platform for all the things you've done watch tomorrow's interview the other day and she was great any plan of doing an AMA or Future announcement with her I try to always do events with tomorrow she lives in Canada I live in Colorado we meet on the road and she's my chief of staff she's an amazing human being and I have an enormous amount of respect and admiration for her she's grown so much over the last two years she started as our culture officer became our HR director and then became my chief of staff and every task that she's taken on she's done it with integrity and professionalism that she has a saying she says integrity first and always and fearless and duty and says it so much I put it on a plaque but I put into her office so so anyway I it's a privilege of a lifetime working with her and I really enjoy doing joint events especially speaking engagements with her because it adds a very nice complementary dynamic she says and does things I don't say and I say the opposite and they tend to really gel and blend very well attempt number 30 how does pool saturation increase the centralization can't people with a lot of a that just create a gazillion pools I don't get it it's a complicated game theoretical thing but full saturation it's really about forcing people to create pledging and to unique pools so even if you have a lot of ADA it prevents the social engineering attack where people with no ADA can create a whole bunch of low-cost pools and then gain an ability to attack the network through almost like a civil attack mechanism so it's not a perfect mechanism to enforce the centralization and it doesn't enable a thousand for example unique pools what it does do is forces you to subdivide them in to distinguishable logical pools so there's a difference between the physical and the logical in that respect so there you have to to introduce other mechanisms social mechanisms or other game theoretic mechanisms and actually another five-year research campaign could be moving from ADA as the operating unit of the system to some notion of a proof of Merit and the I which key chief scientist a de las casas is extremely interested in this concept so it would be really fun for the 2020 to 2025 to do things like one-shot signatures and bring quantum crypto into Cardinale but then on the game theoretic side try to find a different mechanism of deciding who gets to maintain the system that goes beyond the raw unit ADA so you don't have a plutocracy inside the system it's the best that we can come up with and it does align directly the incentives of value appreciation with the incentive of governance and operations but it's not completely inclusive to unique people in the system but hey valuable people in the system so stake tools and delegation does open it up a little bit the metric of the saturation metric is an attempt to remove the civil attack mechanism but it's an open topic and it's one that were right and good papers about it's actually why we created the Oxford relationship with Elias kasuba because we wanted to get access to good graduate students so that throughout their academic careers this would be a problem that they would seed and work on and we'd see a velocity of papers alternative decision mechanisms for governance and for operations if the economy completely collapses tomorrow will your company survive a world recession guys if we have global economic collapse and it turns into Mad Max the last of my concerns is going to be my company because I'll be like fighting for survival against roving gangs of people trying to kill my animals and take my guns I mean it there are levels of abstraction so the whole point of having rule of law and governance in society is I can focus on making the world a better place and building things on top of that structure if we descended to tribalism anarchy and chaos and Mad Max land then you don't think so much about advanced calculus you know thanks so much about medicine you think a hell of a lot more about like where am I gonna get my next meal and how do I avoid my neighbor from killing me or raping my daughter so so you take things one step at a time the good news is that a society is pretty stable right now a pandemic ain't gonna bend us especially this type of pandemic at the end of the day eighty fifteen five eighty percent of the people get coronavirus will have a very mild case of it just like people who get the flu fifteen percent will have a more moderate case and may require some medical treatment or hospitalization and five percent will get very sick and actually require sophisticated hospitalization and perhaps even a visit to the ICU so given those numbers and given the distribution of those numbers where that five percent is predominantly sampled from people 50 or above who have lots of comorbidities that's not going to destabilize society in fact it might actually in a very dark way AIDS Society because this kills off a ton of people a 70 or above who have very expensive chronic health conditions it'll actually create a surplus and the medical spending and society as dark as that thought and humanist that thought is long-term it's not a destabilization furthermore this is going to provoke an enormous amount of collective spending in rapid testing biological research rapid vaccine development and a litany of other things the biotechnology nanotechnology space it's not inconceivable that we will develop a rapid test for a litany of conditions that will start being used when people travel so as you enter a new country if you come from a place that's high-risk you actually get pseudo quarantined and tested and get the results within 30 minutes to an hour and then if you clear they allow you to enter the country so that we don't have more global pandemics these things are coming and they'll come the next 10 to 15 years as a direct consequence of this global pandemic so I'm not worried about economic collapse I'm just worried that there are bigger things like for example that the entire world economy is built on a Ponzi scheme where we keep kicking the can down the road and a global depression will force us to reimagine how money should work the dollar will lose its places the world reserve currency and we will go to transnational standards and it will be a war between the central bank's created federated super coin and crypto currencies maybe that's five years maybe ten years maybe fifteen years but it will come now I have heard some troubling things for example I have a friend works in the arms industry and he told me it's that US government put an order in for a half billion 556 rounds for domestic shipping and they were gonna have to work weeks and weeks 24/7 to service that order I also heard that they're stockpiling plastic coffins and other things so there's certainly some very deeply troubling things that are heard but this is a normal response to a potential crisis event the US government and all great governments have a mandate for continuity and they are gonna do what they need to do to stay around no matter what but it is important understand that these governments especially United States still are technically democratic states and so how they think is determined by elections in the long term and elections have consequences the greatest example of that is probably going to be Italy when the quarantine ends and the Italian people resume their normal day-to-day affairs probably going to be a lot of collective anger about mismanagement about poor response times about people losing their jobs about high unemployment and also anger with the European Union with a perception that the EU did not provide substantive aid to Italy in its time of need this probably will result in a populist anti EU government getting elected in Italy this is my belief and similarly in the United States if the crisis gets very bad there's a very strong possibility that the Trump administration will be kicked out and replaced with a different administration so elections have consequences and these consequences can be very pervasive and have long-term geopolitical consequences but those are blips in the greater scheme of things that economics has its own physics behind it and we are right now violating those laws of physics and that which goes up must come down so while I'm not worried about collapse today I am worried about the system fundamentally changing soon the next 10 to 20 years and there is no guarantee that is going to change to a system that benefits you and me it could become more centralized and more dangerous and more predatory and look a lot like the social credit system of China so it is a moral imperative for all of us to vote with our dollars our feet our mind and our talents to ensure a more fair and decentralized world tip number 9 is it true that cardano's initial vision was to be a decentralized gaming platform at first no that was never in scope it was never the initial vision this is a lie it's a lie mostly pushed by the Tasos community and they put some websites in Japanese that were made by marketers I never met I have nothing to do with Cardno was never a gaming platform we never intended it to be a gaming platform why the gods name when i spend tens of millions of my dollars of my company on scientists and world-class engineers to build a [ __ ] casino grow the [ __ ] up think about it think it through for five minutes just really think through you do not need world-class science and world-class engineering to build yet another casino you can do this with EOS you just don't need to do it everything we have done we have done clearly we told everybody what we gonna do we said we want to build the world financial operating system and we're gonna target it towards the developing world every presentation I did in Japan and other places every presentation we talked about Africa we talked about Southeast Asia we talked about Mongolia in Eastern Europe in South America and lo and behold we have offices in Bowness Ari's lo and behold were into police each arja lo and behold were in Ethiopia lo and behold I met the president of Mongolia and I have my Twitter profile as one where there is a falcon on my shoulder I'm riding camels in the desert why because this is the system we built for them and we went and did extraordinary research using first principles science more than 50 papers evidence-based software more than a million lines of code throughout the life of the process to do that and there's just this bizarre wonderful lie that just keeps floating around that ASOS community and other communities but mostly their community that we started as a gambling platform to defraud the elderly and the Tasos came out we just copied the roadmap in their vision and we we had no idea what we were doing if that was the case why didn't I just fork your code if I'm just gonna copy your entire vision why didn't I just fork your code why if that was the case why didn't we just go ahead and fork aetherium like Tron did and put some cosmetic changes and just release the thing and hire Vietnamese programmers to write a bunch of games and put them on the system think it through think it through I keep hearing it over and over and over and over again it's almost like Nazi propaganda at this point the great lie that if you say it enough and with enough conviction people eventually believe it and think it's commonplace it's a lie everything we have done since 2015 every statement we have made every line of code we've written every paper we've written time and again has demonstrated our desire to build local to centralize global financial operating system for those who don't have one I went to Africa our people went to Africa what are we doing there we're building lottery systems for them or are we talking about voting and property rights and supply chain all these other things but I thought oh just a big confidence game so we can really get to what we were planning doing you know gaming come on man come on it's just it's it's a lie that needs to die grow up people win on your merits when on your roadmap when on your ethics and your integrity don't win on a house of lies if you live on a throne of lies it will burn you alive and you deserve to be burned alive and this is the greatest lie ever told in the cryptocurrency space and don't you dare put a [ __ ] Japanese website that somebody five years ago wrote about our project and say this is evidence that we marketed this thing as a gambling platform it's a lie Jesus Christ I get upset about this one guys because I see it over and over and over and over again in fact the Tasos community in the reddit they called me a pathological liar when I said they owed us an apology for pushing this narrative and they posted a bunch of little links and said all in investigative journalism uncovered all of this it's like it's like anti-vaxxers there's just no matter how much evidence you give them or you just even talk about what did the world look like before we had him oh we had smallpox and polio what did the world look like up without with them oh they got rid of the smallpox and polio no it's just globalist conspiracy to sterilize everybody and cause autism for reasons you gotta have passion and you know that's another point passion you know five years of my life guys I'm not young anymore I'm in my 30s I've gone from the young guy you can do anything to a guy in his 30s I don't wake up on with you in my 40s I was just at a Funeral for my 88 year old grandmother she died not too long ago on Saturday I went to the funeral saw my 90 year old grandfather there was a thought that struck me when I was there when I came Colorado from Hawaii I was 8 years old and my grandparents my grandfather my grandmother were the same age as my parents are now and most of the extended family and it's just amazing how quickly you age and how quickly things change so you have a limited time in this life and you have to really pick and choose your battles and the things that you want to work on and so I've chosen to spend five years of my life on this project I never left I never faltered I never wavered once and this was not easy like 60 to 80 hour weeks I missed so much of the last five years on the personal side for this project I did not sign up to do a make rich quick scheme or do a Ponzi scheme or to do a gamble of queen I didn't sign up for that I signed up to change the [ __ ] world as did many of you and we've all sacrificed at the io HK side we've all sacrificed and we are all spending the best years of our careers in some cases the twilights in some cases the beginning years but the most meaningful one in a unified collective goal that builds something unique and special in it is such a profound insult when somebody says I heard something and therefore it's true and all the work you've done and the people who followed you the hundreds now thousands now tens of thousands who followed you is meaningless it's just a wallet it's just a gamble coin it's just this because I heard something and saw something and I don't like you guys you may not respect me or like me but please do respect that we've put an enormous amount of work into this you might not think the work is going to end up being useful you might not think the ideas are practical but that's like going to a statue that someone has spent five years carefully carving and saying that it's as good as an empty a lot of marble you know this is a masterpiece for better or for worse and I wake up every day in awe of what we've accomplished and what we've done and just the amount of careful thought vision and beauty that this has Hey and damn the people who want to tear that down there's a problem in the world right now amongst the young people cynicism absolute cynicism my grandfather he grew up in a time of wonder I had this conversation with Larry King when I met him a year ago you know there was a generation that said anything is possible I want to go to the moon we'll go to the moon want to cure this disease will cure it they got rid of polio you know we want to go ahead and create a global nation you know created the UN go do that time of wonder Planes Trains automobiles everything got better everything looked better everything was bright and there was a universal optimism and there was a fundamental belief in institutions in a belief of principles somewhere along the way everything got jaded his help modernism leaked in and we have no principles we have no absolutes we have no foundations no one is honest everyone is corrupt everything is bad there's no greater recent example of this then there is the the recent show Star Trek Picard no matter how bad things got in the next generation or any of the Star Trek series that I grew up with they always kept their principles in their faith and they always were optimistic and believed in the goodness of people and a way to get out and now it's just a series showing us how bad and corrupt everything is Starfleet is evil and corrupt you know Picard is falling apart seven of nine will become the board queen and no one is good everybody's dark everybody's evil you know no one has principles its global cynicism and you have to ask yourself what does that accomplish okay people are bad sometimes people are gonna let you down sometimes you're not always gonna win the game so then you should allow this to Jade you're thinking that everybody who tries shouldn't try everybody who works hard shouldn't work hard because they have a chance of failing or they won't always win or they won't always be the nicest people or say the nicest things and the and the goal now is to bring people down every hero every person who's great they have to find the quote the Do You Know Who I am tweet they have to find the dark sin in the past whatever it might be and then they can tear the statue down and there's a joy behind it University of Virginia doesn't even want to talk about their founder Thomas Jefferson anymore great man a deeply flawed and tragic man who certainly committed a lot of sins from slavery on down but also a great man we can't talk about him anymore as a founding father he's now off-limits he's a radioactive waste because he committed a sin in the past he was a man of his times this is the culture and society we live in nothing good will come of it and it is bereft of wisdom it doesn't ask where should we go it says who should we tear down that's trying to lead us somewhere and remove the right to lead and you know what you end up getting two kinds of leaders sycophants that are completely empty inside and live completely at the mercy of social media or people who just don't care about what they do and they just create their own parallel reality the Trump's of the world so what would you like or either of them gonna lead you somewhere great I mean Elon Musk is another example of this in an earlier time he would have been hailed as the greatest innovator in American history and a national treasure one that has to be protected and one that we all need to work with and benefit from his vision now what do we do we criticize him for the tweets we attack him from trying to save kids in a cave they sue them for slander the SEC goes after him for a tweet I mean people are flawed yeah we're gonna let you down from time to time but that doesn't mean we don't have the right to have vision and that doesn't mean we don't have the right to dream big and try hard and fail big and get back up and try it again and Cardno as a project has certainly had missteps and failures we've missed deadlines you know we haven't always done the perfect right thing we released software out of order we should have released it Chris before Daedalus there's a million things that if I got a do-over I do differently but we never wavered about the way we wrote our software we never wavered about our principles and what we were trying to do and who we are trying to do it for we never wavered once five consistent years of this hard miserable grinding years that took some of my best years away and I can't get those memories back so for it to mean something we have to succeed and I'm gonna succeed one way or another and there hasn't been a single day in these five years where I succumb to cynicism like my generation has so many times and I see the optimism in our people the old to the young you know I I was in Bulgaria in the two-year anniversary planting trees that I'll be an old man before they're big trees and I'll go back in my 60s and sit in their shade and lect on all the things we did together and the people who planted those trees won't be around to see that shade but they still planted them with glee and joy I see it young I went to Wyoming and I had the privilege of a small high school class and a junior high class there and in talking about consensus protocols with 11 year olds and helping them set up a stake pool over in Laramie and I see with everything in-between people have named their kids ADA in Korea and Japan people have gotten tattoos of our logos do they do these things because they want to make money was at the point No the point was that they felt and I feel that we all are part of a special movement that just wants the world for once to be a slightly better place and wants us to live in a better world one that we can be proud of and we don't have to be so damn cynical about from time to time that's why I'm here and that's why we continue to be here and that's why we build this offer that we built anyway we'll call it a day there thanks guys till next time
