hi this is charles hoskinson broadcasting live from warm sunny colorado always warm always sunny sometimes colorado today is february 22nd 2022. oh you know what february 21st but in a few hours it'll be february 22nd we'll probably spend midnight together who knows we'll see how long this goes i am back from louisiana i am back from a lovely weekend pre-mardi gras in nollens we had a bunch of new legal people we hired operations and other people for different domains because the complexity of our company's grown so much and poor joel our chief counsel is overloaded with the volume and so we said hey it'd be really fun as a team building exercise bring everybody down louisiana all get to know each other so we love lovely time eating beignets and redfish and lots of crab and interesting seafood and boy it was fun i really enjoyed it and it was nice to see people down in mardi gras um we had some paparazzi down there some people had were following me around not sure why or who they were but that was interesting uh and uh it just shows you what happens when you start getting a little bigger people start um taking you too seriously but uh it was a lovely time love the jazz love the piano bars and uh i live streamed a few things uh there were there was one uh song we played hey jude uh which mccartney song but i know the only beetle that i'm acquainted with is uh john lennon's son sean lennon so i tweeted it at him i says for you sean it's one of the good ones because that was the only beatles song the guys at the piano bar knew how to play well anyway it's an interesting day a lot of a lot of things have been going on um the ukraine situation uh has profound geopolitical implications and it scared the international markets it's very curious to me that cryptocurrencies run counter cyclic to the uh my belief is cryptocurrency should run counter cyclic to the stock market and all these other places but instead they're running in pair so as the dow jones goes down as the nasdaq goes down as markets fall and there's fear in the markets bitcoin also goes down bitcoin's down 15 this week tends to drag everything down with it rising tides and falling tides it makes no sense at all because if the world's going to war and we're worried about inflation and chaos and tragedy you would think that the opposite would be true that as instability occurs here that crypto assets are a safe haven they're a put on world security and trust in institutions so they should go up so i think it's a combination of overheated markets last year combined with some institutional pairing and some retail fear uh together unfortunately what this means is that everything just goes to hell really quickly easy up easy down people love the ups but they forget the downs and predictably there's been a tsunami wave of criticism coming to twitter and other channels saying do something save us save us like first guys it's a decentralized ecosystem if it's truly decentralized no one has the power to save you the ecosystem is going to save itself honey badger doesn't care and more importantly nothing can be done at any event if today a cryptocurrency announced a partnership with microsoft or google and said it's going to be at the windows standard or the android standard cryptocurrency you'd see a short-term spike and within a week the gains would be gone they'd evaporate macroeconomics and geopolitical fear eat markets for breakfast that's just the reality look at covet when it came out in 2020 everything went to hell it was blood in the streets and tomorrow is probably going to be a real tough day for the markets uh and that's just where it's at uh so that's why you have to zoom out and say why are we here what are we doing and realize that if there's real use in utility and a real purpose in five years 10 years 15 years uh things are gonna look better and significantly better than they were five years ago that's always been true for bitcoin that's increasingly been true for ethereum and it appears to be true for cardone because these are real projects with real purpose and real community and the stable people the smart people you know who you are nothing more needs to be said just uh it's just sad because you feel like you're making progress you're finally getting adoption and then you see these kinds of things however what's going on in ukraine uh and elsewhere in the world where there's instability like sudan and so forth is just a testimony to the need for cryptocurrencies and why we're here at any given moment cyber attacks or authoritarianism can shut off your money can seize your assets can shut off your right to vote it can destroy your identity rewrite your identity these types of things it's true that these powers will always be abused by the powerful so you have to say well in about time we take back our lives isn't it about time we take back uh our sovereignty we become self-sovereign individuals isn't about time that we be our own bank and be our own institutions so that we don't have to live in fear that all the things we've achieved and gained can be taken from us so quickly and that's the lesson to learn here and i think the world as a whole will become increasingly more aware of that lesson and it's going to eventually work its way through and if we're right uh what that translates to is global adoption of cryptocurrencies above and beyond a few tens of millions of people but billions of people and entire circular economies that live within that bubble a lot of good things to come you know we got a great update coming soon uh for cardano and then come june there's gonna be uh the vossel hard fork and then the next hard fork will curl october and with that you have sip 31 3233 you have pipelining you have input endorsers you have a lot of great technology and the brass taxes it's commercial technology there's no more theory here you know security is achieved the network's at scale we've demonstrated it survives under enormous load it doesn't shut down what that effectively means is now it's time to turn on the commercial stuff meaning 10 x's of performance here and there and all the kinds of things and expressiveness that are required for the next wave of dabs there are over 500 projects now building on cardinal that's incredible because the last time i checked two weeks ago there were 300 and i got the numbers today and i said 500 wow that's crazy so colonel's open for business we're going to be at consensus down in austin texas we'll negotiate that out and we're going to bring a lot of people with this not us just io and cf but the ventures that are building so we'll work something out we'll announce something if you want to come with us and showcase what you're building what you're doing we'll have a hackathon down there you know we're really gonna show everybody who we are what we're doing and then uh in october i'd love to go back to bermuda eight years later for my ted talk and talk about what we achieved in the last eight years as an industry and cardano in particular as a product and what it's done for the developing world where we're at there's a lot of misinformation there's a lot of lies you know there's a lot of people floating around just telling you garbage verbal diarrhea and you always have to take a step back and ask who are these people why do they say what they say sometimes it's fear you know sometimes it's because they have commercial interests and sometimes they're just misinformed and they go run with it like a town crier babbling to everybody ringing the bell in other times there's strong financial incentives that pervade to create narratives for example there's a work of fiction coming out tomorrow it's a book by a author who shall remain nameless and it absolutely eviscerates many of the ethereum founders myself included uh and it's just a really unfair book it's a work of fiction at the end of the day you know and probably some truth in it some inconvenient truths for some and a whole lot of speculation and innuendo and insinuation uh and that's just the example of perverse incentives you see you dial that up such a book becomes a movie and if you get lucky at the author it becomes the next social network with your justin timberlake and all-star cast oscar awards and more importantly millions of dollars of profit for the author that's the economy we live in i think the kardashians have been on for more than 15 seasons we love to watch the lives of the rich and famous we love to watch the lives of the powerful and infamous and we love to have heroes and villains we love stories it's who we are as people we there's nothing materially different in psyche from the tribes sitting around the fire ten thousand years ago and us today you take someone born then you raise them today it's look and sound exactly like you and me you take someone born today you raise them there they'd look and sound a lot like a paleolithic person just that simple and the one unified thread is storytelling that's what got the human race through it's at so you have people with their exits and entrances and their villains and the heroes and there's marketplaces for these things but the story that we should all remember is the story that we have dominion over our own lives and we are capable of achieving liberty and freedom that's what i care about and that's what i've become increasingly more concerned about many of you notice i've become a little bit more political during the age of covet it's because we are creating through mandates second-class citizens we've taken a group of people and we said if you don't do something then you can't go to a restaurant you can't go to a bar you can't go to a coffee shop and we never really set a condition of what we're really worried about uh and i'm just not really comfortable with the idea that society gets to create second class citizens that's why people protest and then when they do they get silenced and speech gets destroyed and informed consent which is a bedrock of medical ethics gets challenged and that's just a one thing there are many things going on there are many lies going on and people have an all-time low opinion of and trust of institutions whatever those institutions may be and when their political party wins they don't seem to have much problem with it when their political party loses the institutions are intrinsically dangerous and corrupt and the reality is that there's collusion on both sides behind the veil to rob you of your money that's what's going on we've witnessed the largest wealth transfer in history the last two years between the poor to the rich and that's not going to stop unless the systems change and the institutions change it's just that simple whole point of what we do as an industry is to change things you think maybe it's a good idea for us not to have putins and g's they would have never been able to come to power if there were governments of integrity in principles problem resolves itself you think it's a problem that we have certain people in the white house pick your favorite political side those people would have never come to power we did politics differently you'd have different leaders and different incentives but we have what we have and now wars are breaking out markets are uncertain inflation is very pervasive and a lot of people are very scared so you have a choice to make when you're scared as terrifying as it can be you can take a step back and survey the entire situation orient yourself observe and try to come up with some way of moving forward however terrifying that is and believe that whatever course of action you're taking is going to get you to higher grounds in a better world or you can just give up there was a an experiment that was done at harvard many decades ago when they didn't care as much about medical ethics where they took some rats and they dunked them in water and they let them sit in these vats of water and they timed how long the rats would swim uh before they gave up and just decided letting themselves drown and so they left him the vats for 15 minutes on average and the rats would give up right before they drowned they'd rescue them dry them off let them recover a little bit and then dunk them in the water again see how much longer they'd last on the second try most people if you ask them guess how long you think the rats would last the second time they've been dunked in the water would say i don't know probably less time ten minutes five minutes they're tired gotta get a little hopeless is the opposite 60 hours 15 minutes to 60 hours why because the rats had hope of being saved the lesson is hope is a powerful thing belief is a powerful thing so powerful that it has the power to sculpt nations one too long ago that a bunch of people got a crazy idea in their head that because they were really pissed off about political grievances uh lack of representation encroachment of their rights and liberties they decided to declare a revolutionary war against the most powerful nation on the planet and fought a brutal conflict without proper rations or clothing or ammunition and through sheer force of will tamed an empire and from that was born a nation and in perfect one with many problems that still is imperfect but that's where we came from as a people we were born of hope and a belief that we could get something better so in many ways that's the point of this industry take it or leave it you can hate anybody you want plenty of founding fathers in america you think they all got along john adams and thomas jefferson probably stabbed each other with knives at some point in their lives i mean for heaven's sakes aaron burr shot alexander hamilton not exactly the best of friends although jefferson and adams did become at the end of their life which is so extraordinary but despite the fact that they didn't get along all the time especially didn't get along they found a way to set it aside and figure out a way forward we as an industry have to do better and some people want to focus and monetize on the past or the present and some people just want to grab as much as they can for their own interest and leave the rest of us to drown but i'd like to believe most people when they see a problem are willing to solve that problem cardano is a reflection of your efforts my efforts and the efforts of millions now 500 dapps building 3 million assets issued an ecosystem and economy to a better world we did our part we did all the research we figured out how to get protocols that actually work and believe it or not i had a few things to do with it you know but some people say no and now it's the part of the community with us to take it to the next level i do less amas today than i have historically because they're less relevant it's no longer the guy sitting on the mountaintop preaching the sermon i'm just your friend i'm here we grew up together we know each other and it's fun to talk to you especially when there's sometimes fear and panic or things don't work out the way that we think it's going to work out because we're all in this together we're on the same boat whether it's a bad market day a good market day i'm here and nothing gives me more pleasure and happiness than to talk to you guys and spend time with you guys and gals you're really ex justice exceptional people and you've changed my life you've changed my perspective you give me hope often asked why do you keep swimming you don't need to anymore i swim because of you and i think i'll last a lot longer than 60 hours i'll tell you that year by year i get tired and worn down the constant criticism the politics of personal destruction all the hate negativity toxicity all the things that people say and do all the threats have security now never used to have that now i do i have no privacy anymore everywhere i go i'm tailed and followed i endure all of that because at the end of the day we together have a seat at the revolution we get to change the world together some people get to be officers and some people get to be soldiers and some people get to be legislatures and some people are just well-wishers here to add some support that's pretty special i don't know of anything i can do in my life that's more meaningful this i don't want to be a spectator when nations get invaded and people's rights get trampled and the world goes to hell and the money in my pocket loses 20 percent of its value every year i don't want to be a spectator in a castle somewhere living a gilded life saying poor peasants that's the greatest evil a man can ever embrace indifference to the suffering of others i gotta be there in the arena sometimes right sometimes wrong but always in the arena always fighting always ready always prepared because that's just who i am and there's a hell of a lot of people listening right now who are exactly the same and when you put them together you got an army and as long as you have an army well trained not well trained well supplied well not not well supplied as long as you have an army you got a chance and that's all you need to keep swimming so we're gonna win all right you listen to me rant for 20 minutes and now it's your turn let's talk let's see your questions okay it's a rough market for us new investors charles it's a rough life roy think about it you left your money in u.s dollars just put it in cool wet sack you lose 20 percent just like that that's how bad inflation really is they say seven and a half it's actually 20. that's bad that's bad for all of us it's getting difficult as time goes on there are so many human rights violations the battle seems insurmountable you know it does but you can always find a way to get it better and resist and build up you know don't lose the faith with great technology comes great responsibility and the need for wisdom and the leaders that we have right now and they're not so good and they're aging out so the next generation it's up to us to figure this one out worthless talks from a guy who likes to speak like a guru and pretending he is trying to be just a simple guy sam can you show me where on the doll they touched you are you okay do you need a hug man just gotta hate your heart man it's okay it's okay sim we love you we're gonna give you space to heal and get the get the support that you need i saw you at a stoplight one day in boulder well damn skippy horn hunter what was i driving please burn coins all right i just want to remind everybody please create a burn contract we're ready to go what's your take on the potential war charles so here's the thing about putin he's old school kgb guy and the pretense of that order are very simple where there is weakness take advantage uh so if your adversary is a drinker give them a drink if your adversary likes women give them a woman if your adversary has the same pattern and habit and approach the life learn it and use it against them whatever it might be america used to be strong powerful dominating withdrawal from afghanistan 20 years of war weariness we're weakening a bit europe's resolve is weakening a bit politics are different now so soviet union used to be this big now they're here and so wherever weakness shows itself take advantage land geopolitical influence power see invade not invade create a geopolitical buffer it's a negotiation point leverage ukraine doesn't join nato move your missiles further back get rid of them all together abandon a certain piece of technology you can ask for anything and just by creating the crisis you go from zero to something and however weak the government is the adversary is you take advantage of that that's the way this guy thinks it's some zero and that's the way he thought for the last 20 years it's not going to change yeah that's how putin is it's who he is so should we be surprised about what's going on should we be surprised that someone is taking advantage of situations the same when china and russia get together and they make a deal to start trading things in euros instead of dollars dedolorization of the world that's another geopolitical push to weaken a bit and the more missteps that are taken geopolitically the more power they're going to gain i remember the presidential debates between romney and obama and romney very accurately said the russians they're asserting strength and dominance again and they're going to be one of our biggest geopolitical adversaries in the next 10 20 years and he was mocked brutally for that now we're here because there was intent and desire the first challenge of putin was when he came to power oligarchs president and he had to do this president oligarchs and once that was cleared through they had an economic downturn can't take the blame for that somebody else comes in and then he comes back now he's dictator for life and okay what does a dictator do they started flexing muscles asserting dominance changing the subject making sure they're always ahead of the narrative and so forth okay that's what they're pushing for weakness uh there's an old saying nature abhors a vacuum and that's what russia is doing they see a vacuum and they're taking advantage of it now there are many things wrong with the u.s government you know and the war machine has to be fed so the huge incentives military-industrial complex to find the next boogie man in the next conflict afghanistan's over the war on terrorism is not exactly as sexy as it used to be so let's go drum things up with the rescues 700 billion dollars plus plus plus a year spent on this machine that employs millions of people what are we going to do we just shut it down no president is crazy enough to do that yeah they might end up having kennedy in their last name and things happen when they go down that road so gotta feed the beast we americans we seem to love our wars more on drugs more on terrorism more on poverty war on this and at the end of the day you end up hiring millions of people to do it and then you can't stop the war because those millions of people get fired think it through now we have the medical industrial complex every year you take your medicine 100 billion dollars gets sent to private industry no liability they don't have to pay to develop anything they get it for free and you have to pay them through your tax dollars it's a racket spit and truth can i please work on your mushroom farm of experience in agriculture and from colorado i am looking for a guy so i tell you why here's my ea you send your resume to me right there that's my ea send your resume to jeffrey go ahead and save that and uh send me your rhythm i want to know all about you i might even have lunch with you who knows i am looking for a guy i got a mushroom farm turning online uh here in march gonna grow some lions maine and a few other things charles when can we have a network that's uncongested everything's very slow well blocks are not at 100 capacity we're in about 70. it's not ideal but a lot of that's on the dap side not on the network itself um blockchain is getting larger in terms of block size mem units and that helps a little bit pipelining in june is going to be the big one and then you'll feel very natural at that point then input endorsers is the one-two punch and that's what gets us to that high tps rate this is as expected everything's going according to plan don't worry about it how did you enjoy your time on crypto jeb i always always always always uh enjoy my time when people have a great uh interview you know they ask me good questions we just have a good rapport it's fun just talk to people treat people with respect [Music] i had asked this question on ama vid how does a tala prism bring value to cardano are there chain metrics from the use of patella prism that can be identified in the cardinal blockchain so it looks like metadata with hashes when you do batch uh drops of people and generally speaking when you're talking about mass registration of millions of people that is done as a rollup of of people in some sort of data structure that's authenticated and you can go as arbitrarily large as you want you can only have a single hash for that if you trust the source to possess that data but you're always able to verify if you construct the snippets off chain correctly now as an individual so the self-sovereign identity component every identity would relate to a transaction so it's either many to one or one to one or could be even many too many just depending on the way you use a tallah prism and if you have the actual did in the uh memory or just a hash representation of it as an integrity check of the dead so in practice the integrity check makes a lot of sense because when you have like five million people like the ethiopia deal or eight million people like the boost dish deal that's 13 million people 13 million transactions why it just blows the network no and these are centralized services at the end of the day you just want to know as an employer that the credential you're given with the proof checks out and hasn't been tampered with the blockchain component is the trusted bulletin board to say it's not been tampered with so you'll see some hashes in the chain and they're just hashes and those are usually fidelity checks for some file an integrity check for some file but because their centralized systems run off chain that's as far as you can take them over time as peer-to-peer identity goes then you're actually going to see registered debts not just hashes because you're using it as the key server like the mit key server for pgp or these things the public private key you see that identifier and a hash of the document that's associated with it which is um and then you can see that the trust the web of trust form around that that's a different way of using prism and how does it value cardano well it values i see in three ways one is user acquisition because once they have a did they're usually in some form of wallet infrastructure which is cardona great 13 million customers great let's let's get them into the family get them using dabs at some point it's a long road but we'll get them there and you can always scale because b to b to c play two uh once you have identity in the system then you're able to do compliance and if you can do compliance then suddenly you can do regulated activities for example um taking technology like what accuint has with email kyc for aml kyc with a did then you could talk about one click exchange creation so you talk about frictionless use of cryptocurrencies for consumers it would be really cool if i just boot up my wallet oh i need to trade that they click a button and they're using coinbase coin account auto creates no compliance check no wait it's just boom it's frictionless and you have the same interface in the wallet or things like that or the third area is regulated dabs so what if you have a dex but you say to use this dex there's an entry condition where you have to have a did with a white listed kycml so it's still decentralized training and order books and no custodial risk or counterparty risk or things like that but it is regulated at the entry and exit points from saying that somebody has to be accountable for knowing who the users are that's an example of regulated dab that's not something the space commonly does today but as regulation comes it's going to be something people begin exploring and we get all three for free with prism mass p to b to c customer acquisition um you you get that cream filling in the middle uh and then you get obviously the regulated gaps so a lot of automation of regulation you know and a lot of things about building an identity system super important in the overall usability of the system you know the other thing is that identity is key for all credit relationships you have to know the person you don't necessarily have to know the name of the person or the physical real identity of the person but you need some object that's civil resistant that is able to have enough reputation weight behind it that the value of burning the reputation is less than the value of cheating you you see and so as long as you have a system like that you have anonymous lending but safe lending and create credit metrics and scores and that's what we're basically building so identity is key it's one of the bedrocks one of the foundational pillars of a cryptocurrency working properly by the way all our critics never mention that 13 million people it's as if it doesn't exist put it in a book maybe people like reading it who knows ah this is a good one charles kindly updated us on the status paper wallet we are working on a light wallet that light wallet will have a paper wallet center in it and i'm going to make sure that that center has qr codes that are encrypted i really believe in that i think it's an awesome idea because it protects you from printer attacks and it's a good way of saving things and you also can potentially store them in email as a backup mechanism securely so this some i care a lot about i want to do it and i'd love absolutely love to see it um done with animated qr codes for the digital backup that'd be fun charles what are your thoughts on blockchain domains i mean this if we could redo the internet all over again we would use a trusted bulletin board as our domain space instead of icann this example of replacing an institution that's centralized with something that's decentralized from fat boy gutta do you like tacos yes i do sir tacos come in all different shapes and sizes and i love all the colors of the rainbow charles latest thoughts on ergo 5 000 outputs in one transaction way to go alex charles and amber should hang out who the hell's amber gotta give me more when will it be if you have compatible cardano really seems to be missing out on cross chain dabs look at dc spark and what they've created with milkameda and they're already running an evm chain and then next month we should have a test net out for it and throughout the year we're going to roll out the entire sidechain strategy and show you guys how to run your own site chain what were your thoughts about the ethereum conference you intended and did you converse with the formers i did see vitalik gave him a fist bump i kind of didn't have a chance to talk too much because he was busy there was a long line of people and you know uh probably the first time that they've ever had a chance to talk to him or see him so i figured let them do that uh why uh why ruin the fun um saw a lot of people talk to a lot of people uh the castle is legendary and the ethereum community and f denver has been going on since the beginning it's grown a lot used to be they argued about how to pay for pizza for so many people for a hackathon and now it's a big event governor of colorado comes other people come and i was treated with respect and no one yelled at me no one you know threw anything at me like the bitcoin conference i went to last year the toilet paper roll uh and for the most part uh people were very friendly and curious and friendly and if people didn't like me you know they uh certainly didn't make it known uh or they just avoided me but all things considered uh it was just too dense the other thing was that you know you do a lot of work cryptography and information security you start developing a security mindset and there's a lot of security theater there at that event uh it's very easy to gain entry if you have one person you can swap the wristband and the badge and just kind of work your way through it get into the front door and then play a game of musical telephones with that the other thing is you had to take a covet test to enter but we had to do it ourselves as groups of five uh and um it wasn't supervised there were there's just too much chaos and pandemonium which means you can just like spit on the test and it'll come up negative you know you have to get a fragile swap to even get a notion so what value does that provide no none absolutely none but okay you know let's take the covet test and that somehow makes everybody feel better about life um you know also those kits that they were providing were standard kits that you could buy walgreens so you just take one with you and show the guy oh yeah i took it here you go see a single line we're good so you know stuff like that really bothered me and i saw some people actually walk out of line and say this is antithetical to everything i stand for i understand that a blockchain conference being like you must comply you must do this but you know it's either here no there it's a private event so they have the right to decide what they want to do but all things considered i was uh i had fun i i didn't get invited to speak or anything like that and really not much to talk about there i guess i could have mentioned the evm sidechain and lessons learned from doing a bft-based dvm system if that's interesting to anybody but we're definitely going to have a bigger showing at consensus and davos this year and we'll we'll definitely talk to a lot of people through that didn't run into joe lubin and i did not run into gavin i think they were there but i did run into vitalik so i didn't have a chance to talk to joe and gavin a lot of hate though on the internet and a lot of hate in reddit and other places from people in the ethereum community you know and uh bizarre beliefs you know uh certain people in the ethereum circle have converged to total clarity on who i am as a person which is surprising because i don't even have total clarity on myself but they have total clarity to the point where they feel very comfortable saying i'm a sociopath a pathological liar a hyped man no technical skills uh rah-rah-rah-rah-rah any evidence to the contrary they ignore any demonstration of humility or humanity or concern or care is explained away as an elaborate ruse to deceive people to what end we're still here we still keep going don't have to be here eos guys ran away you know block one's being sued i guess by their own community i'm still here been at this game longer than them too cardano cardano cardano never leave never go keep going like helmos we told everybody what we're gonna do we did it and now we're telling them what we did because they don't believe us i i think that's just a reflection on where society as a whole is at we like villains and we like heroes we like convenient easy narratives and confirmation bias is a thing uh and the ethereum community in particular a lot of people there have succumb to the politics of personal destruction and narratives guys we don't always ship on time you don't either you're a hell of a lot more late than anything we are on our roadmap furthermore we wrote everything down in a very careful way and every single critic who succumbs to the politics of personal destruction are incapable or unwilling to actually have an intellectual discussion about what about what we've done doesn't work the book author who shall remain nameless did a podcast today came out today and said well the launch of smart contracts on cardano is a failure we are not a real competitor to ethereum uh you know we've bamboozled and misled people news to sunday swap news to mel new stockholm news to everybody who's building stuff especially things running right now today you can do swaps stuff is happening it's an extended utxo model it's an entirely new programming model it's never been done before but they just subscribe to this belief and it's unchallenged nobody says well maybe there's some merit there maybe something good's been done there no it's charles bad cardano bad all of you listening who like us are a cult and the only reason we've achieved what we've achieved is because of some elaborate manipulation that's so sophisticated that we wrote 130 papers academic papers and went through the peer review process invented new protocols and changed the science of the entire industry just to facilitate an elaborate con so sophisticated that it will actually deliver a real product just just to justify itself it's almost it's almost like um that south park episode where they're the the police the chief of police of south park is you know doing stings and he dresses up as a prostitute uh to catch john's and he takes it too far he starts sleeping with the johns and arresting them after he sleeps with them and then eventually he falls in love with one of them and he's like marrying the person and then right at the wedding he says freeze you're under arrest this is the the mental thought process that those people on that side of the aisle live in for six years straight we've been building a community been doing the right thing it had been pushing for six years all this code all these people hiring people dealing with people everything from military contractors to you know uh to firms in the eastern bloc to people in africa just going all these places just so that at the end of the day we can go freeze you know it's like it's like what are you doing this is so nuts it's the craziest thing i've ever seen in my life but you know it is it is what it is and it it's it's the same kind of a conspiratorial thinking that has infected politics if you don't like trump or biden a lot of people are willing to believe pretty much anything to confirm what they say anything any depravity they will go for it if they can find a way to justify it it's where we're at people are hurt the source of all of it isn't me or anything i did ten years ago for the six months i was at ethereum you know it's it's the trauma everybody is feeling right now the world doesn't have as much love as it needs we've just spent two years separated and being lied to and we're hurt institutions are failing us not a lot of people are economically where they need to be and all the things you're told to do to improve the situation go to college start a business all these things decks being stacked against you globally and then you got the most powerful people in the world like klaus and the rest of the gangster you'll own nothing and be happy and dystopian realities being inflicted on people like social credit people are scared people have trauma people are angry angry traumatized scared people they lash out they attack people they look for villains they get cynical they're bitter anybody who's been abused knows this anybody who talks to someone who's been abused knows this collectively as a race billions of us have been abused by what's been going on we're not happy as people anymore it's why depression is at an all-time high it's why ptsd is at an all-time high it's why divorces and domestic violence and a litany of other things are at all time highs and suicides at all-time high think about it these are just facts and this is just an example of it and it's sad hating someone is like taking poison and hoping the other guy dies doesn't really accomplish much and succumbing to the politics of destruction is the exact same thing at the end of the rainbow you're only hurting yourself and sometimes you pay that check much later on in life but you always have to pay for it at some point either in missed opportunities or personal unhappiness or some issue so if we're ever going to get out of this as an industry and as a society you know we have to really take a chill pill and we just have to learn how to relax a bit and listen and also look up to people think the best in people we can just keep throwing hand grenades at each other charles what happened with the wallet that was announced at the summit we're building it man got a huge [ __ ] team on it we've been building and building building it's uh coming out this year sooner rather than later i want it out i'm excited charles do you think we're in the great reset absolutely there's a lot of people running around really trying to [ __ ] us up you always have to face the raven that's true what are your thoughts on purnes pernice well would zo1 i i i just don't know what you're talking about i don't know what a purnes is can you can you elaborate a little bit more and just give me a little bit more about pernice you are rich well yeah i'm rich in a money that loses 20 of its value every year even with the official numbers at seven and a half percent every nine years half my value disappears with 20 which is the real number every about three and a half years my value disappears ghost goes down by a half within 10 years i have 1 8 of the value wow do a little bit better but that just means i'm further back in the line but we're all going to the same place and you know what they can take it from you you don't think i'm on a list charles can you address the new fud that hydra is only theoretical and not possible from some github comment no they're completely [ __ ] wrong in every possible way uh hydra is absolutely possible it's got a public road map version 0.3 uh we have great releases i think they're every three weeks tons of things to do but roll-ups in the head and tail protocol but it's public it's out there this is an example of fun misinformation to reality hydra is in the life cycle of applied research a paper was written a philosophy was embedded and now it's an engineering problem and as engineering is being done things are being discovered about cardinal that need to be updated modernized and changed to accommodate the reality on paper so the team is in rapid iteration and every few weeks they learn something and the project evolves that project is co-building with six commercial partners so we have bunch adapt guys and we say we'd like to see you use hydra on your dab duboja is in charge of that program six of them working alongside the scientists working alongside an engineering team and the community as a whole and we're making progress sip 36 we discovered we need to modify some things to make it easier to deploy hydra on the system that's the point new hybrid papers are coming updates the protocol are coming guys orbor is classic can't run a real cryptocurrency or boris prowse and genesis can as we see with cardano today we had to implement and iterate to get to prowess in genesis and we're doing the same with hydra but somebody in github says no it's not possible oh no the github commenter oh okay great oh the misinformation in this space cringe your cringe you're my cringe charles can we get another programming language to use other than haskell to build on cardano yes cardano is a multi-paradigm system a multi-computation model evm support is coming did colorado's governor get back to you jared polis is his name i've known him since before he was governor um he ran the jared polis foundation and then he was the congressman for my county boulder county and then he became the governor of colorado not hard to talk to the governor i know governor gordon up in wyoming's so much better than i do uh governor polis but uh it's not a big deal and you know honestly i think wyoming is a better state more prime for a crypto company than colorado but uh you know big ten and i'm sure we'll run into uh polis a lot we talked to several people state colorado i think the attorney general and a few others and yeah i've been here for 20 years i know colorado really well charles what's up with mike alfred and his hate towards cardona on twitter oh yeah cardano derangement syndrome but you know the thing about mike is that it's one thing to say i think the price is going to collapse and ada is useless and has no utility and and all these guys are incompetent this is puffering qualitative statements allowed to do that no problem at all it's not liable it's just like the big lebowski would say that's just your opinion man to the cows come home and if you agree with them great you can just go like oh mike uh oh yes yes you can just do that all day long okay and just get a nice hot towel and wipe your face off afterwards have fun but the you cross the threshold and you start lying and asserting that we're manipulating markets or other things like that and you repeatedly tell the lie as if it's a fact and mislead people you've now crossed into libel okay i'm allowed to say you're a terrible human being i'm not allowed to say that i saw you do a hit and run and you know kill the this child or like i saw you like a beat your wife or something like that okay and and write that in a medium where thousands or millions of people are going to see that with an attempt to defame for economic purposes can't do that so i said mike um stop it and he apologized all right i'll take you at face value backed off so he went and retracted the libel and now we're back in the cardano sucks and charles is an idiot and everything about this ecosystem is wrong and raw and that's what peter schiff does every day with bitcoin okay i don't have a problem with that and if he wants to do it do it any day but the minute he crosses that boundary into libel with the intent to defame for economic purposes or try to provoke some form of regulatory issue or something like that that's too far especially involves my company the other thing is when it's a protocol that's open like cardano or charles hoskinson there's no ego or something you [ __ ] it who cares but when it's my company input output that's 600 people that mama bears got to protect and that's what we're going to do because they like going to work they like their job they're good people and you can't go into fame and hurt them they didn't sign up for that from aunt lin charles how do you feel about the sec's flip-flop on their position on the hinman opinion speech so what they say in public what they say in court it's two different things um i remember giuliani doing this we have evidence that trump's election was fraudulent uh the uh the you know biden cheated it was the great khan or all right they go to the judge and the judge says well do you have any evidence of fraud no no no no no i want to get disbarred come on now they got a case to win they and so you know they're moving a little bit uh but the unintended or intended consequence is that they've gone from clarity to anti-clarity it's not fair as a regulator to tell an industry one thing but then to reverse course and say well we didn't really mean it it's just not fair you know if it's a personal opinion you issue a statement after the fact if you can't get them to retract it there to say this was just a personal opinion it does not reflect the opinion of the agency but you can't just let it ride let opinions be written on it and have the industry push forward and then change your mind because it's convenient for a particular enforcement case that you're doing but we've noticed this with this particular government at all levels of this particular government in different branches of this government where they say one thing they do another thing and whatever is politically convenient they do it it's not good leadership it's not how prior administrations ran things on both sides of the aisle and it's just hurtful to everybody and it it's not a partisan thing it's just a clarity thing when you're in an industry you'd like to know what the rules are but if the rules are ever changing and undiscernable or are staged in a way where it's impossible to comply so you're regulated out of existence it's pretty crazy it's almost kafka-esque you must have a license to do business but you can't get a license to do the business but then when you ask about it you're told get a license to do the business it makes no sense and this is not how you compete and it's how you damage a two trillion dollar industry i i recently had um a meeting with some people in the commerce committee the u.s senate i said the same thing to them i said look maybe the regulatory agency all they have is a hammer and everything's a nail well give them a different tool it's a screw give them a screwdriver give them a different tool so pass a law so i think there's a lot of blame on both sides this is not just an issue with the sec or the cftc or some regulatory body it's also a clarity issue as a result of no legislative activity when the internet came out got big in the 90s they passed the digital millennium copyright act the communications decency act introduced things like section 230 uh and that provided some clarity on online ventures also the nsf aup was repealed to allow commerce online okay so that was what was necessary for the internet companies to start building we're now in the same position a two trillion dollar industry deserves clarity and that clarity comes from legislation and accommodation it doesn't come from regulators like like like playing three-dimensional chess with laws that were passed in the 1930s when the vast majority of americans didn't have even indoor plumbing or electricity if you believe crypto winner is better for good projects like vitalik said yeah absolutely is because you don't have the damn moon boys crypto summer in spring you have massive salaries unrealistic expectations crazy valuations and noise noise noise noise noise the people at the conferences are moon boys chasing money crypto winner it's like ah well it's all over the only people left are the believers who are there for philosophy who are there to build stuff who are there who care about the use and utility of the systems and the moon boys aren't around you have a community real people who are motivated by things bigger than money so yeah i enjoyed the hell out of 250 bitcoin hated 20 000 bitcoin hated 64 000 bitcoin it causes so much toxicity in the space and just negativity and it makes it harder to hire good people and unfortunately some good people get swept up into scams and then they get so much bad taste in their out they leave and you lose access to them it's like a library burning down can we apply the minotaur paper to cardano or suggest research that's definitely something in potential for the cardinal 2025-2027 roadmap and after we get what we need done done uh that's the community we're going to have because it allows you to have multi-resource consensus if you don't like plutocratic systems or vertical integrated work systems you can put things together in a certain pairing to have multiple constituencies and checks and balances therefore minotaur is only the future from a security perspective it's the future from a meritocratic perspective more diversity charles big fan what do you think happens to cardona if for some unfortunate circumstances you're not here anymore if i die it's kind of like fallout new vegas when caesar dies the legion still marches on it's good to have a guy who started it but it's its own creature now and it's going in its own direction charles hoskinson is not required absolutely not required for cardano to get to where it needs to go from pikapower charles hoskins and i'm new to aydah i'm really glad i'm on the right side thank you for what you're doing in crypto well thank you pika power for the support and love pick up a shovel let's get some stuff done cardano.org election with a fraud well you gotta prove it and if you have 80 lawsuits and you can't prove it in the court of law that it's a pretty damn good fraud and if you still believe it's a fraud then what you should be saying is how do we build a new election system so it can't be hacked so mo yeah what are you doing about it what shovel are you picking up you can't just say the bedrock of how we make decisions and give consent to people is wrong and broken and sit in your little chair and ship post online you believe that the election was a fraud the courts are no longer available to you so legislatively we have to change laws then so go to your representatives and get it done and demand it and that's your protest this is my great umbrage with donald trump in his last days in office the guy could have been a damn folk hero if he had said i think this election is wrong i'm just going to spend the next four years of my life and the rest of my money changing the election system of america so what happened to me never happens again there would have been none of this stuff and we have made real progress on long-term election reform allow you to vote on your phone allow us to be able to verify the elections it's just so unbelievable to me the 1984-ism double speak in our election system they say you can't check your vote because if you can check your vote you can sell your vote so we have to keep the ballot anonymous in secret great okay but then they allow you to have a mail-in ballot so let me tell you somebody send you a mail-in ballot and they want to buy your vote you let them fill out the [ __ ] ballot and you sign it and they give you a hundred dollar bill if you're gonna allow mail-in voting then you've already passed the pail of sell your own vote you're concerned about that so let them verify it that when their vote is counted they have some means to check that the vote was counted and it was recorded the way that they thought and if you have inclusive accountability for the totality of the election system it means that every user can check the amount of people registered to the amount of people who voted and see if the registrants exceed the population of the counties and the amount of people voted exceed or are less than the people who are registered should always be less than or equal to can't be higher okay you should have that ability blockchains would give you that ability so if you believe the election's a fraud pick up a [ __ ] shovel and ask for a blockchain based voting system with a paper backup and demand it and fight for it every day push for it they'll never let us do that well if you believe that then we're headed for a civil war because once we discover that the election system is corrupt and corroded the legitimacy breaks down to a point where you can no longer throw a ballot box get effective political change and the only way to get political change is through violence a reaction and counter-reaction will begin going back and forth and kick in and eventually have another civil war so you might as well go start buying guns if you believe that i for one would like to live in a peaceful america a happy america america that is not going to devolve and descend into things that happen in the 1860s i would rather believe we've gained some wisdom as a society and how you move forward is you be proactive and solutions oriented stop complaining stop being a toxic troll online stop being angry stop listening to the noise and make a decision do you want to solve it if you believe it's a problem or not now if you're on the other side of the aisle and you believe everything is great there's no fraud and nothing happened it was a legitimate election that we elected a corpse that can't speak and somehow some way got more votes than anybody american history when on your side of the aisle in 2016 you said russia took the election and it was interfered with russians okay great shouldn't you want better voting more inclusive voting shouldn't you want that i can use a cell phone and vote isn't that a good thing talk about people being disenfranchised the racism of voter id shutting down polling these types of things wouldn't it be a good idea to allow a voting week instead of a voting day so people have more opportunity you don't have to take time off from work you just click a button you can vote and express your political will isn't that something you want from that side of the aisle don't you think that'll make america better and more inclusive then why don't you want blockchain voting seems both sides agree one says we need to improve the integrity of our system so we know that we have a true democracy that leads to a representative republic the other side says that we have systemic racism in our voting systems that are used to preserve the power of evil racist people okay great so how do you resolve that by changing the underlying dna of the system so every single american has a voice and every single american knows that their voice hasn't been manipulated or changed now if you believe this left or right it's a fraud it's not a fraud because both sides said it was a fraud one said it was 2016 the other said it was 20 20. okay if you believe this pick up a shovel and you have your solution right there and if you're unwilling to do that then what are you accomplishing as a person what are you accomplishing you're no better than the people who write books about people much greater than them 10 years ago of things that those people allegedly did you're no better than those people you're just diarrhea coming out of the mouth you're just negative and toxic you're hurting people for no reason you're making people angry for no reason it's like somebody walks into a party and says let's talk about all the problems of the world start with the rwanda genocide and then we're going to talk about this issue and then this issue and my dog died two years ago i cried as a boy what are you accomplishing nothing nothing at all and if you believe it's so hopeless that you're being controlled and dominated then just go live in a forest from a husky token since you mentioned you don't know about pernis eggplant emoji still don't know what that's about what are your thoughts about werness i don't know don't know anything about that either from daniel kamish thoughts on ben gortzal's hyper cycle and the singularity uh tota hyper cycle these things ben and i did have a chance to talk about it we're looking at it it would be a really interesting side chain uh for cardano so it'd be a lot of fun to see that direction and we're gonna get much more involved conversations here in a little bit it'd be fun to bring them into the dcf as for the singularity i mean it's like agi is a more complicated thing i'm not gonna get into that one charles do you conceal carry well what's the point of concealed carry if you reveal the concealment by definition has to stay hidden it's not really concealy what's your favorite math theorem uh probably hilbert's no stalin's thoughts i love cardano but algorand better technology okay well i'll bite qd what's specifically about algorand what specifically leads you to believe it has better technology and for what use case floor is yours in the comments let me know i'll bring it back up if you say something how is there no proof of dead people voted well dead people have voted in every election in my lifetime i and dead people have voted every election in my dad's lifetime dead people have voted in every election my grandfather and his father and his father and his father's father's father dead people have run for office look it up it's true story and actually one do you communicate much with lex friedman after the podcast i sent him emails from time to time he actually also joins cmas from time to time it'd be fun to do a uh a roll back and i'm gonna be back in austin for consensus so be fun talk to him again charles do you have many like-minded close friends it doesn't seem like you have many like you around i have a huge diversity of people half people i talk to think i'm cray cray peanut butter and a cray-cray with a baseball bat that's okay if you have a superpower what would it be oh i think telepathy all the [ __ ] that charles xavier can do that's the way to go from joe if you ever need roofing services horn brothers roofing local out in denver colorado well joe here's some free advertising for horn brothers roofing at local colorado charles from dr michael lesser quadruple board certified physician one of the smartest doctors in the united states charles your thoughts on using rhabdomyosin in your new health clinic as a regular treatment to fight against anti-aging well michael actually very interesting question so uh there's a trust there's a scientist out of harvard named david sinclair he's got a wrote a lovely book called lifespan and there's a litany of other researchers that are looking into these things and there's a lot of great anti-aging literature and there are drugs like as you're aware metformin and rhabdomyosin and others where they've been having discussions about using these in some way to extend life and what they've discovered is that there's very strong evidence especially with metformin and there's some placebo-controlled double-blind studies that are coming out to reveal just how efficacious this is that these drugs may indeed actually slow down the aging process like kellogg restricted diets and other stressors have been shown to do and they translate to years of extension of life not just weeks and months now it's important to understand and manage expectations that you you achieve as you're aware for the audience's benefit uh extension of life as a series of escalations with the big brush strokes and then the fine details so it's kind of like when bob ross paints something he'll do the mountains or the big landscape the large objects then he moves to the other brushes and he starts making the trees so when you look at rhabdomyosin and metformin and nad uh high bioavailable resveratrol you know other things these are the brush strokes the tiny brush strokes the big brush strokes are free and simple but hard that's diet and exercise you can always work out you don't even have to pay any money to do it you don't even have to buy anything there's plenty of ways to work out for free or very cheap and diet you can always converge to a maintainable diet that is interesting um okay so if you don't do those things work out and have a good diet no amount of rhabdomyosin or metformin or any of these other things is going to give you a beautiful picture you're painting little trees but you got no mountains you got no water you got none of that stuff you need to get your mountains your water and your your primary part of your palette done first and then once you get that then you can move on to the next stuff so if you just do the diet and exercise maybe you go from living to 75 and the last 10 years aren't so good to living to 85 and in the last year's [ __ ] but the rest of them are pretty good then you add the metformin and the radomias and the nid these things some intermittent fasting and other ideas and you go from 85 to maybe maybe you get to 90. that's good years are good i'm a billionaire i can't go to walmart and go buy five years off the rack there's no place i can go where i can just inject myself with something and magically i get a few more years so that's magic that's that's a very good thing then the next step is saying okay are there more accoutrements are there more things we can add one thing we're looking at very intensively is hyperbaric therapies that's as close to magic as you can get they heal wounds really fast they treat bends there's actually a whole fellowship in hyperbaric medicine you can do actually the entry point for that is taught in florida in miami my dad and brother just went to a fellow to a program down there and they're going to do a year fellowship for it but actually more importantly for the for the this conversation hyperbaric chambers there's some good clinical evidence that's been generated out of israel and it's being commercialized that's showing that they can actually slow down aging in c2 uh in addition to that they have tremendously beneficial effects on nerves tbi treatment neurogenesis they can trigger the production of bdnf uh and a litany of other things and there's just so many case studies and every neurologist will tell you who's used hyperbaric medicine anecdotally and observationally and now the science is finally starting to catch up and demonstrate it say hey actually i've been using this for 10 years and it's really doing something good you know it's really helping out my patients who have neurological problems well if it's good for that good for the goose good for the gander so we're looking at these types of treatments in parallel in addition to a collection of drugs prescription and otherwise that could take you from that 85 beyond then there's blue horizons new horizons of anti-aging research for my biotech company and there that's that's beyond five years it's beyond seven years it's more like the ten year range and you're starting to ask questions about as fetal stem cells uh you know you're asking questions about uh adult derived stem cells umbilical cord tissues exosomes these types of things and you're looking at some form of a tissue transplant situation either self-derived or external and you're now playing with much more complicated primitives everything before is a modification of some process metabolism or some sort of process of the body's healing to regenerate it or get it to a state where it's operating optimally but that's the tools god gave you when you start talking about external things uh it's very exciting because you potentially get another palette to play with and that can make things great and put them together a whole new life span but it's also quite dangerous because the same things that as you're aware could potentially be useful for regenerative medicine also start looking a lot like the cancers that kill us and they start looking a lot like things that can create potentially autoimmune disorders and so forth so the fda in particular has been a little aggressive with people who have been involved in stem cell therapies which is why a lot of treatments have offshored cancun the caribbean and other places and their adherence swear by them and usually it's athletes or other people have injuries like oh the disc in my back is bad or my shoulder is bad or something like that but um in general we just don't have quite yet the peer-reviewed placebo-controlled double-blind studies in clinical trials necessary to indicate an efficacious signal that yes this indeed is doing something to turn back the clock however it is my belief because synthetic biology is getting better bioinformatics is getting better diagnostics are getting better genomic medicine is becoming extremely refined that we will within a 10-year time horizon finally be able to start exploiting a lot of these stem cell therapies especially with adult stem cells which are just phenomenal because you can harvest them from the patient uh you don't have to do anything with embryos and aborted fetuses or any of these other stuff from the long ago you can just make it from your person and it's like in like your chance of a side effect when it's your cell probably pretty low uh and that that feels like long-term a better solution for a whole bunch of reasons from scalability of treatments to a risk of complications and side effects you know as all physicians aspire to do no harm it's not good enough to have a potential to help if you have a belief that there's a potential to harm there's bad ethics and and they roll out of that therapy so we're looking into all of these things you know first things first is just get primary care to catch up to where it should be genomic medicine fully sequence the entire genome understand the epigenome really well and how why it works the way it does the microbiome and all of the other synergistic processes that enable health super important to get those straight diet exercise and overall wellness super important to get that straight as well i'm not exactly a model of health as you're aware um and i need to improve there and that those are the big brush strokes and then you put a care team together and that the hoskinson clinic that we're setting up in gillette it's going to represent most of the specialties there'll be a cardiologist and a neurologist and a rheumatologist and a gi doctor and primary care representation along with support staff like a full-time geneticist to genomic medicine and so forth get that done right come up with a wellness plan then you layer on top of that an anti-aging protocol that's bespoke to that patient and you track and modify things you study things and you're very metric driven we live in an age of diagnostic wonder we have real-time continuous glucose monitors you put them right here on the arm and you can actually real time track your blood sugar and you just eat something and you can see how it spikes you say well carrots do this crazy thing and you know and beets don't or vice versa and because everybody's metabolism is a little bit different and then you can get to the level of saying well maybe there's a genetic reason for this and if you fully sequence the genome you can play mix and match the other thing is ai assisted medicine and peer chart review as you're aware many physicians deal with a belief that peer review is adversarial usually another doctor looks at your charts when you've screwed up or there's a perception you screwed up and there's an investigation a medical board is involved what if you build your practice in such a way where that's just the standard operating procedure suddenly the other physicians are there to help you and they're not there to like take your license away or benefit a lawyer or something in a lawsuit or these issues an ai review is very important because medicine is just simply too complicated now you can't keep it on your head and so as a result you need constant vigilance in every area from the images that are taken to the drugs the patients on to try to keep up to date with standard of care and also assist the construction of differential diagnoses uh the other thing we're doing is building a full image center level three tesla mri 256 slice cat scan dexa scan full body ultrasound and there's a lot of amazing advancements in medical imaging that are just starting to percolate into the marketplace and with ai assisted medical imaging you can do some pretty remarkable things and see that wellness plan you can put all those things together you're going to have the care team represented by a multi-specialty practice you're going to have the genomic medicine you have the image centers you can do whole body mri on the patient on a regular basis you can take extensive labs because they're going to be clear approved lab there too and there's a lot of really amazing labs especially the onco labs in particular company called grail and others that are developing tests that can do very early detection of cancer from a blood test that you just order as a physician and most doctors aren't even aware that these tests exist because they're so new unless you're an oncologist and this is just your thing you don't know about it but early detection of these things is tremendously beneficial those are the broad breast strokes for wellness along with diet exercise then next stage is the fine details and then at some point you get the right to make another canvas once you've figured out how to do that in a responsible way that doesn't provide harm so it's a side pursuit of mine but my dad and brother work on it they're both doctors and we have other great people working on it and we're real passionate about it and i'll talk more about the biotech company over time i just uh we're in kind of construction mode building a big clinic and all these things and it's tens of millions of dollars but it's money very well spent the other side of it we'd like to have a humanitarian component so it's not just medicine for the rich the clinic that we're building is going to provide free health care for the poor so we've got to figure out the economics of that and how to balance them together because you have to give back uh beware the person that tells you theranose is a great example of the magic box you see this a lot in entrepreneurship i usually see it in the energy sector okay so every now and then yeah orbo or storn was the company for that you have all these things we have this magic box like a car that runs on water or a cold fusion reactor or this perpetual motion machine and this magic box will solve all your problems now you say okay great can can i see it and it's almost like that simpsons episode where skinner invites superintendent charles charles over to his house and uh he just has a series of lies and eventually his kitchen catches fire and charmelers is like what's going on in your kitchen and skinner's like oh aurora bulialis and and chalmers is like aurora bolealis this far south completely localized within your kitchen and skaters like yes there's a whole series of memes on it right um the magic box is like that people say that they say can i see it no you know so theranos is a great example of that you know they basically we have this magic box and it does something and all these doctors and scientists and other people well can we see the magic bot can we analyze it and they say no no no it's our proprietary technology we're special contrast that with how we approach things with cardano we have no secrets we opened the box up in fact we started with the box and pieces and built it out in the open in the public that's the point of the peer review process nothing was really peer reviewed in the theron side nothing there in the theranos side was really transparent open nobody really knew how the magic box work you just had all these guys on the outside like opining and speculating how did she pull off this magic box how does this thing work huh well you contrast that with us it's like everybody knows how our [ __ ] works to an extent where we've over explained it in a language so technical that only scientists seem to care and that's fine because we're the ones translating it into code and now cardano's here it's at scale it's there it's running so you now we have a clinic okay and they say well there's evidence-based ai assisted personalized genomic medicine with a wellness team that's multi-disciplinary multi-specialty people providing the healthcare are licensed physicians and you're using science and evidence for the best treatment protocol that's what the president gets but with commercial innovation you can provide that to the general public or at least somewhat affluent members of the general public to start that's theranos what extraordinary claims are being made there what magic box is being offered there you see but you say it you say it because you're an [ __ ] but you also say it because you really haven't thought very clearly about the root cause of deception this is a teachable moment in every criticism there's a teachable moment in every comment there's a teachable moment why do people fall for scams it's too easy to say people are greedy and stupid and this and that and just blame the victim it's too easy there's always a root cause to it in the case of theranos there was a desire for that magic box to work because the ceo was a female steve jobs and everybody in the valley wanted a female steve jobs they wanted to point to somebody say we've gotten there as a society so that meant along with the confidence game that was played the board of directors that she amassed the charisma the the ability to do magician tricks that bait and switch the competitive dynamics that you either accept this or the other guy is going to take it and there was another guy who was willing to take it that was masterful sociopathy masterful but it was only allowed to flourish because of a culture move fast and break things evidence doesn't matter some political agendas and a litany of other concerns that form the perfect storm for a system like that to fail if i was a vc and elizabeth holmes came to me and said i have this magic black box as the first thing i said can i take it apart and play around no i said well i've signed an nda no i don't okay well then let's build an experiment you give me that magic black box and teach me how to use it because it's a magic black box and i'm going to go take 20 samples at random and i'm going to put them in that magic black box and it should tell me what what's going on here who's got herpes and who doesn't right it's an experiment then at least i have some data points that you've created a really [ __ ] convincing magic black box now that doesn't necessarily prove that the box actually does what it does for example there's a very famous case of the chess playing mechanical turk and so this benjamin franklin played against it it was this mechanical abomination they said i think was from the ottoman empire and apparently was a robot that knew how to beat people at chess so all these famous people played it they were blown away wow it's intelligent it's a machine that can beat us it turned out that there was a little [ __ ] inside that knew how to run it and played chess and was pretty good at chess and it was an elaborate con so you could have the guy in the box you know there could be some bait and switch but at least you have some temptation you see there's something real here but if i can't tell you the fastest passes the first and there's no legitimate reason why a real company would not want you to test their product anyone in the world can fork cardano the code's all open anyone in the world can take our paper and implement our papers as has been done by meena protocol and polkadot for some of our papers and for oroboros anyone in the world there's no restrictions if you're a scam you don't let the people see what's behind the curtain because there's nothing there it's just that simple um projects in cardano how many currently thank you well let me answer your question by giving all of you guys the way of verifying that yourselves talk about inclusive accountability so there's a website called cardano let's see here uh let's see is it ah cube that's right that io website is live and i got the url right i did all right so i'm gonna go ahead and click on the ecosystem map and here is an interactive map for all of you guys on people doing stuff on cardano and by the way this is not even the full list but it's a good starting point but it gives you guys a great view of the whole thing cardano cube.io and you can kind of see a lot of different things click on their websites and so forth there's the big ones but there's over 500 or around 500 or so crystals this yeah cognitive science legend it appears any thoughts of its work okay cognero i forget where's christos at um richie anyway cognitive function cognitive science is great cognitive neural science is magical and you know i'd do it all over again um i'd probably do a phd in computer science do ai and do a lot of cognitive neural science and just get a master's in math and do automated theorem proofing i was never a very good mathematician um didn't prove anything interesting uh so cognitive neural science is phenomenal there's a lot of great people there and i've become incredibly interested in uh the brain recently and i've been working in particular with something called the neural meditation institute now i don't have anything particularly to say about christos work because it's not my area of expertise and i am not going to dunning-kruger my way through it but i will say that the field in general is interesting and i'm attending a conference in london on accelerated learning that's in may and i will have a lot more to say on this topic as i become better informed about things like accelerated learning and things like memory and also meditation to improve focus and resolve attention issues and these types of things i browse the cryptocurrency subreddit the amount of hate you and cardano get is unreal do you know why that is we talked a lot about this in the beginning uh and uh it stands for itself i'd encourage you to listen to my comments there the longer the short is is that they're just convinced of things that aren't true their confirmation biasing their way through it charles are you at the 10th booster yet for your vac slave pass no two shots got them last year knowing what i know now and in fact that i got omicron there's no reason to get a booster no medical science behind it is harmful to get a booster at this point relative to the value it provides medicine is not free you do something if it's effective it has a chance to be problematic every single person in medical ethics knows that and so the whole point of the fda is to say well we've crossed a threshold where we can now have the conversation and then the whole point of a doctor with a medical license is to say their judgment is going to help you along and making an informed decision of whether you're prepared to take the con potential consequences for the potential benefit i am immune to almost every variant of kovid right now i got coveted twice i was twice vaccinated got the delta variant got the omicron recovered both times two shots there's just [ __ ] ton of antibodies right now floating around and every piece of medical evidence we have that says it's over for me now there might be some variant in the future and sure i'd probably contract it at some point just like they did omicron but it's probably not going to be problematic for me because the immune system works this way or else if it didn't spanish flu would never go away okay so there's no sense in getting another booster it makes no sense zero sense and anybody who tells you otherwise they're just they're not thinking clearly i got the booster it was called omicron i took nature's vaccine and i told people a long time ago we're all going to get it either going to get man's vaccine or nature's vaccine now at the time i said it from the data we had available and all the knowledge we had for the groups there it made more sense with wild type and certainly delta variant to get vaccinated now with omicron it's not as clear as it used to be especially for people who are already vaccinated so you know this is the problem with the evolution of science in the politicization of science and scientism people just say stuff and they believe things and they think medicine is simple medicine is not simple it's hard because we have an incomplete understanding of the body and how the body works and the world around us works this is why people go to medical school go to residency this is why people become medical scientists it takes many many years to know your head from your ass and many many more years to be good at it and good is relative good in that you can do better than nature but you can't necessarily beat nature and god immunology is one of the hardest ones vaccinology is one of the hardest ones good vaccines take decades to fully understand and this is a whole new ballpark but we we want a simple solution for complicated answer uh and uh unfortunately the pushers of these treatments they're using a hammer just like the regulators are with cryptocurrencies and so everything is a nail everything's a vaccine and it's much more nuanced than that and they would be the first to tell you behind closed doors but too afraid to tell you to your face publicly well you know that's not necessarily true it says makes zero sense to get any dangerous vaccines well what if there was an aerosolized ebola you know 50 percent mortality rate and what if you find out that the vaccine only works half the time and there's a 10 chance that it causes you to develop a severe rash or heart problems or something like that and this ebola is spreading rapidly would you take the vaccine you see there's risk reward in all things you look at the potential spectrum of problems from natural contraction of the disease normal coronaviruses the common cold these things we don't vaccinate for that because it's it's not really a problem unless you're immunocompromised and that's an opportunistic infection it kills you for different reasons but we sure as hell do vaccinate for yellow fever and we sure as hell do vaccinate for very dangerous diseases especially diseases that are terrible for children like measles mumps and rubella and those programs i went to a plantation today uh and uh it was a plantation down in new orleans and sugar plantation and as i got to learn the entire history of the plantation one of the people that lived at the plantation had 14 kids only four of them lived to adulthood 10 died from child born diseases mmr vaccination is a big deal you know it prevents this type of stuff so there's always a trade-off risk and reward medical ethics is about the concept of informed consent what can we tell you what do we know do you understand and have the capacity to understand what's going on and it's difficult sometimes what if the patient has dementia what if the patient's unconscious what if the patient is mentally challenged then how do you inform them and they have a custodian but who is the proper custodian who's the proper guardian of the patient parent what if the dad disagrees and the mom does we see this a lot uh one parent wants to vaccinate the child the other parent does not there's been more than one divorce over this in the united states right now well do both have the right information it's a problem so it does make sense even if there's danger it's just a question of do we have an accurate view do we understand and we have to look at the societal threat in the case of childhood vaccinations it was not an academic reality every single person who grew up in the 19th century in the first half of the 20th century knew someone without exception who lost a child early because of an infectious disease it was a fact of human experience and it's why everybody had lots of kids because your kids were your retirement and not all of them are going to be with you by the time you hit 30. it's just how it is vaccinations change that that's a fact so then the question is okay what is safe and effective what is reasonable and it's always proportional to the threat when cobit first came out why did everybody get so concerned probably came out of a lab and governments freaked the [ __ ] out because the first time they'd ever been exposed to something like that and it causes all kinds of bizarre side effects neurological problems and myocarditis and you look at lungs we're long coverts like they've been bombs have gone off it's scary and so they said god we need to do something and they overstepped and by overstepping they destroyed the global economy and harmed a lot of people and pushed a lot of people into desperate ends now they're trying to walk it back and the macguffin of walking it back is vaccination even if it's not appropriate and they have removed the power from the physician to make that decision with the patient they're forcing it upon society i don't understand what's the point of a medical license anymore if a doctor no longer has the ability to make medical decisions with the patient and have that discussion with them okay we didn't elect a doctor in chief in the united states but i guess we have one now so that's a problem and it destroys the faith and credibility and institutions and it's seldom gonna come back easily uh and by the way i talk about this a lot because it has an enormous impact on my ability to do business i'd like to have a summit with the cardano foundation to discuss cardona the open source project we're moving rapidly towards that it's so hard we've had to reschedule it three times because of cobin not because covet's a concern but because the government response to covet has locked borders and made it difficult to travel and onerous restrictions have been put on and now we're finally converging to a point where we can do that but this this policy has made it very difficult to have certainty in plans in the world uh and it's gotten uh it's gotten just so bad and just when you think it's over it comes back there's another proof of blockchain technology the government's advertising for me watch out you might lose your good boy credits for wrong speak i assure you i am rapidly losing them and i'm just going to keep you need to do more research about world economic forum obviously you don't see how this is a plan have you actually been to davos i get invited i go there every year i see the people i shake their hands i'm kind of part of that class um it's not what you think it is there's no call of the new world order you know just just meeting at davos guys if a secret society is meeting to determine the entire fate of the world they're not doing so with hundred thousand dollar tickets davos is an excuse for very powerful people to get together to enjoy skiing and drinking and just hanging out with each other to entice wannabes to go and try to suckle at the teets of power the swiss specialized in this uh it used to be like the bilderberg group it used to be like the jackson hole summits or other places and it has converged to a point of a commercialized endeavor yet go there it is pandemonium every hotel has high security it's ten thousand dollars a night for a hotel room in some cases it's in damn impossible to get around you get searched everywhere you go to your little thing and there's just some guy and he's like he's looking at you and he's like okay am i more powerful or is he more powerful now let's see what alcohol he's drinking let's see let's see his affiliation i see his little tag on his badge it's the double take is so common they'll walk past you look at your badge as they pass you they go on the cell phone click click click click click click oh that guy's important turns around goes back and says hi nice to meet you so and so i'm that's davos in a nutshell imagine all of that in a small town that's not built for it uh and uh and just it's impossible to eat it's impossible to network believe me man if the rich powerful people of the world are getting together in a single place to make a decision about your fate in life they're not going to do it in a place where it is impossible to get a reservation for a [ __ ] restaurant and it takes three hours to get a slice of pizza they're going to meet on a secret private island they're going to meet in a beautiful castle in the mountains somewhere there's there's a better new world order uh event for crypto it's in samarit's and it takes place in castle it's beautiful you take this amazing unesco world heritage train ride to there and everybody speaks vermont and just a beautiful area the better skiing and there's no security it's laid back world star chefs there and like every person floating around is a millionaire a billionaire really powerful people it's a week before davos a lot of people go there they don't go to davos that's just the crypto stuff there are so many of those types of events secret invitational events and they're under boring titles and they hold them at the aspen institute or you know other places and uh they make bigger decisions there and yeah sure great reset is a big decision they're telegraphing a lot here's what's going on i'll cut the fat for you guys so you can kind of understand what the elite are trying to do okay in the 20th century it was the first century in human history where we invented an existential technology prior to that we had muskets and warships and cannons and gatling guns and all kinds of cool things that could kill lots of people but they couldn't extinct the human race there was no musket that could be fired and then suddenly we all die as a species then in the 40s we invent nuclear weapons and then suddenly everything changed we went from a local tragedy to a global tragedy if that technology was misused the entire human race disappears that was the first moment where we started realizing as a species that global governance isn't about placating the ego of a world conqueror alexander the great or caesars or genghis khan or you know something like this this is more about preservation of the human species so all these transnational bodies started forming to regulate both the use of the existential weapons but also nation conduct the united nations and so forth okay so fast forward to the 21st century and two things have happened the quantity of existential technologies is increasing agi the great goo problem nanotechnology gain of function research and synthetic biology much easier times acquiring weapons of mass destruction also just natural over consumption and anti-environmentalist capitalism etc etc etc and the other thing is accessibility of these things is shrinking we went from one nation-state to a collection of nation-states powerful big states with a world order preventing smaller states from getting them to a hundred guys can get together set up a lab do gate of function and create an aerosolized ebola with a rabies special game over for humanity where's the regulation for that how do you even regulate that because they can do it in a secret island not tell anybody about it it's pretty scary [ __ ] that's what's coming couple that with high population density and the fact that the world is running out of non-renewable resources massive coral bleaching a lot of deterification coming ice caps are melting all these other problems these are known facts okay we had a finite window of time to take advantage of stored up wealth that accumulated in terms of millions of years of natural resources and we're exhausting that for the industrial revolution for the industrialization of mankind and that's not sustainable it's a shot in the arm to get you ready to go but you have to then transition to something that is the problem is that transition requires new forms of governance and economic models so when you talk about new world order it's really about that existential technology problem and it's about the fact that the default world order is not sustainable so the ali because they're elite in their minds not in reality they think they're smarter than everybody else and they think they have the moral right and the mandate to decide the direction of the world transnational governments and the only tool they have is a hammer that's been the theme of tonight and they keep batting down the nail and that means one world government through unelected bureaucrats at the top and you know you put titles and names and transnational bodies and all these other things and pick winners and losers and because they have a lot of political influence they can cause wars and do all kinds of things this is what the elite do and they were right if that was the only game in town they're not what our industry does with blockchain technology how we operate is that we offer a different way of doing things institutions that don't require people things that can't be evil by design things that respect your privacy and your rights as an individual but actually do achieve a lot of regulatory ends and different economic models that can reward a long-term outlook as opposed to a short-term outlook so basically libertarian capitalism 2.0 a lot of the benefits of democratic socialism without the costs sounds pretty good that's why our space is worth two trillion dollars and some of the elites are buying into the space because they realize that this is potentially a better approach because the problem with hyper centralization of power as the soviets learned is that when the guy at the top decides to abuse it you can't stop it and it gets worse every single generation okay so that's what's going on there's a great reset in that people are scared at the top and they're very worried that left to our own devices society's going to burn out and the fermi paradox will be proven true and humanity will go extinct through some existential technology either an agi kills us the terminator scenario or you know some magical nanotechnology paperclip machine kills us uh or you know a virus kills us that we designed ourselves or some other unforeseen technology uh destroys the mankind the human race big problem okay uh so you just have to understand that all of these things are interconnected and if your only mindset you're 80 years old 70 years old is let's do what we did with the marshall plan let's do it do what we did with transnational governments these types of things the u.n then yeah you're gonna say well we need to be more aggressive which means we have to go from optional to compulsory we have to go from advisory to in control we have to go from elected to unelected we have to go from free market to controlled market because it's too dangerous to let these people run around and do their own delights oh it's not somehow surprising that people born into billionaire class born into royalty uh people from large political families that have been reelected for centuries somehow feel that this is the way to do things and that they have the moral authority to do that but you know we americans we're a little different we don't uh exactly have a lot of respect for that so i like to believe that the blockchain option is better and that's the great fight of our times but you have to acknowledge the wisdom gap you can't have your foot this is what max tegmark talks a lot about in life 3.0 you can't have your foot at 100 miles an hour an accelerator and that's technological progress but then on wisdom progress the wisdom behind the technology go 10 miles an hour the gap gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger bigger easy way of thinking about it you invent the car and then somewhere along the way you invent the safety belt that wasn't because one day you woke up you're in the shower and just like man you know maybe i should make a safety belt no here's what happens you're driving the car having fun you hit something you go through the windshield or maybe don't even have a windshield you fall out of the car the car runs you over and you die and the person who finds your corpse says man maybe it's a good idea to make a safety build so that doesn't happen again okay so usually the technology fails in a way that we don't like in order for us to build something or regulate it in such a way that that failure doesn't happen again that's fine when the tragedy's local the guy who invented the the wing suit i think the first wing suit or the first parachute i think he died in the first maiden voyage of testing it didn't invalidate the concept just same for the hot air balloon i think um people die you know things happen we move on technology gets better we improve the wisdom gap closes you cannot do that with existential technology because the first failure is the last failure for all mankind the technology kills you so you do the wisdom first before you do the technology before you make an agi you think really carefully about the philosophy of the agi and the problem of control stuart russell writes about this there's a lovely book about it ai and the problem of control and the ethics of these things and sometimes you decide just because you can do something maybe you shouldn't do that thing okay and so this is where we're at there's a wisdom gap and because human humanity has shown to exploit that gap in unproductive ways and many tragedies are occurring and the proliferation of existential technologies it's causing the ruling class of the world to say god we need to solve these existential problems and the only way we know how to do it is using the problem the problem solving of the past domination control authoritarianism force propaganda psyops centralization of power unelected dynasties and so forth and suck it up buttercup meanwhile they're completely ignoring the fact that a social revolution is happening demanding for fairness and human rights and egalitarianism and institutionalization of ethical ways of treating people and blockchain technology and inclusive accountability these basic things all those upstart ripper steppers who cares about them or oh they're a threat they're going to prevent us from building our utopia that will save the human race so we got to beat them and i love i say this whole rant i don't know who needs to hear this but signing with weff is not a good luck for charles just saying you're a [ __ ] idiot did you listen to anything i just said god i just went on like a 20-minute rant explaining what's going on and what people are doing and what wef is about and all these other things and how we got here watch the tape again watch it again and again and again and again you'll get there god damn it you'll get there i uh huh ah you know we're gonna redo the podcast at some point i'm building a podcast studio it'll take like a year to get done but we're talking a lot about the format for it um and uh yeah and we're just thinking like how do we better communicate with people we also are thinking about adding a twitch live stream as well and more platforms maybe even doing some short clips and putting them on tick tock and other things like that my uh ea is is very uh very social media friendly and savvy and he's always trying to get me to change the way i do things it would be nice to get a higher quality set of questions sometimes and a better dialogue i really like the twitter spaces because i've noticed that the questions and dialogue is just very different from this format i still do this format because some people take advantage of it and value it and i enjoy it but it's pretty tiring sometimes you know you go on this long point and you're like and then they say well why did you say that i said the opposite i don't know it'll be fun though charles is having a lot of fun today well hell yeah i woke up at nollins i i ate so many beignets i think i gained three pounds just eating beignets i'm gonna have to go on a [ __ ] protein sparing modified fast lose all this weight get on rogan please yeah i'll do it we'll get there just give us a little bit of time there's some stuff we've got to do some unfinished business got to go back to bermuda talk about these things we're gonna get it done when will you be burning adam you're mad as hell but you're the one saying you eat pizzas with the elites not me well yeah you know i get invited to the parties you go and talk to them you see them it doesn't like you know cover you with mud and stain yeah you get to know people you get to see where people come from believe it or not the elites are human beings they're not snake people and if they are snake well you know mark zuckerberg might be a snake person but outside of him there's no serpent people they're humans like you and me go to the bathroom like you and me you sometimes stand next to a billionaire at a urinal you know you're just peeing he's peeing you're washing your hands sometimes they're washing their hands you know usually you get a better soap there might be like a bathroom attendant maybe they have like the nice high quality cocoa butter you know moisturizer for your hands but guess what guys whether at a buffalo wild wings or a michelin star restaurant in copenhagen it's the same same basic framework so you engage with people you talk to people and you get to know people and you say well why do you believe what you believe i talk to a lot of world leaders a lot of presidents a lot of prime ministers you sit down with them why do you believe what you believe now conspiratorial thinking it says those people are completely empty suits and there's some race of lizard people some evil cabal of people like doing weird hand signs and [ __ ] and that cabal of people tell those empty suits what the thing can do now it's certainly true there exists proxy governments the world of vichy regimes in the world and throughout human history there are secret societies many of them exist okay great um your exalted order of the golden dawn the illuminated order of golden dawn your illuminati europeans [ __ ] loved secret societies in the 17th 18th century half the founding fathers were freemasons great um and that's fine okay these things do exist and so they sometimes even had a cultic uh hermetic order of the golden dawn is what i was thinking they have occultic bends and uh you know they sometimes claim they have magic powers and commune with spirits and these types of things okay but at the end of the day each and every one of those people were human beings have a heart a brain eyes a lot of them suffered from syphilis that were fake noses because they were too popular with the ladies back then and they were just trying to figure out a way to stay in control in charge and make meaning and sense in a world that was not as meaningful and senseful as they want it they're just as scared as you we live in a weird world where power is delegated by wealth and prestige and these other things and allows people to get separated from each other it isn't a war of the elite from the nut elite you meet elite people all the time you could be standing in line at dick's sporting goods and the person in front of you could be an olympic champion that's an elite person they do things 99.997 percent of the world don't do it's not about that it's about the attitude the interaction the friendliness is that person a complete whirlwind of an [ __ ] really just that a walking condom commercial like uh mike you know is that what that person is or the nice guy or gal are they nice person you know chummy wow what an interesting person so humble that's why i love charlie daniels so much i was so sad when he died because you know charlie daniel is one of the nicest guys ever met he you know he was extremely affable very friendly the dude played with elvis bob dylan johnny cash willie nelson and he played with everybody and devil went down to georgia come on great song so many amazing hits he played like six instruments 80 years old he's still just jamming like [ __ ] crazy go to the golden nugget hit the buffet go over there 30 dollars for a ticket you watch charlie daniels play you're gonna have a good night if you meet him you could see him on the streets of tennessee nicest some [ __ ] you'd ever meet in your life uh you know and you wouldn't even know that he's charlie daniels right that's elite but friendly he's a person he remembers we're all the same at the end of the day the problem we have is when we start creating the other the woke cult does this politics does this genocidal dictators do this religious extremists do this the other vast unvaxed the unvexed the other they can't go to the restaurant yeah i was playing with somebody the other day masari invited me to uh an event at denver at the particular restaurant in denver uh they uh apparently were checking vax cards there's no mask mandate or vaccine mandate in denver anymore they canceled that so this was the establishment making that decision show me your vaccine card to have access to this private event missouri is holding i had actually my card in my front pocket eyes i don't have a card and she gave me this evil look like how dare you unvaccinated person be in my presence like like like i'm a monster for being in the unvaxed category i said oh actually i found it it's right here in my pocket and she just didn't know what to do she was just like but she's like looking real close at the cards can i see your id real quick sure here you go just just want to make sure you're on the list for the for the guest event she's looking at the car trying to is counterfeit is this not i want to hate this person because he's unvast he's anti-science he's a bad guy but now he's fast what do i do oh no she's the victim of propaganda she's the victim of the otherism and you see it everywhere you go why families are splitting apart why grandchildren are disowning their grandparents why wife and husband are breaking up husband and husband are breaking wife and wife are breaking up people are breaking up people are hating each other because of otherism we fear the elites because the elites promote the ones who are evil otherism they divide people in a marinette puppet game to gain power because in the war in the conflict you can sell weapons to both sides in the war and in the conflict if you're of the observer above no matter who wins you win and if we're fighting each other we're not fighting them look at the blockchain industry in a nutshell ask yourself that think about that really really really dig into it okay you're a maxi a bitcoin maxi our view of the world is the only right one everything else is a [ __ ] coin you got max kaiser says take the orange pill everyone else is wrong we are right and they're evil and we're not meanwhile every single legitimate blockchain venture is selling auditability timestamping inclusive accountability irreversibility all of these things we have different philosophies about how to get there and we have the same set of enemies and the same conceptual problems in selling the field yet they sit there and say we are the enemies and the people who sit above with the marinette puppets the elites that you don't like oh they're loving it drinking it from a cup as long as we fight each other we're not fighting them and we're weak when we're fragmented the old saying a house divided cannot stand and that's where we're at so the real thing that you have to avoid is otherism and you have to know where it's there you have to know you have to see it and whenever you find yourself having a visceral reaction to a person a concept an ideology a visceral negative reaction especially one that you know so little about that is not informed by thought and critical thinking it's propaganda you've been propagandized and the old hoskins axiom i'll say it again if something is sub-optimal it doesn't make sense it's harmful but yet we keep doing it it's because someone's making money that's as simple as that if you're propagandized for some reason is because someone is making money or getting power from that those are the elites we have to fight though that's the situation we have to fight and how do you fight him by not playing the game don't succumb no one who is a normal person is so irredeemable that you should hate them and the people who do heinous things almost always themselves were victims somewhere along the way or suffering from some condition somewhere along the way you punish the acts you protect society but you have compassion and empathy for people for the circumstances that they're going through but you don't allow your mind to succumb to otherism and propaganda if you do that you're no better than the elites you purport to hate because you're falling prey to the games that they're playing and you're contributing to making the world a worse place uh so the elites are lizard people then yeah mark zuckerberg is i give him a [ __ ] with [ __ ] he's having a bad week you think crypto's having a bad time lost 500 billion dollars market cap i see here hello from the dolomites charles thanks for you for everything you do lucian toy um that's a beautiful mountain range northern italy and some of the prettiest sites you'll ever see in your life google dolomites and thank me later hi charles i'm a student journalist still in university what's something i could do to improve the way journalists communicate with the public through blockchain verifications well dawson this great question i deal with media all the time tomorrow horrible books coming out written by a purported journalist boy i'm having fun just trashing that [ __ ] fiction and dawson uh my problem with journalists is you're entering a field with [ __ ] up incentives when you get your job as a journalist your incentive is to make money for the person who owns the publication not tell the truth not do research not think about objective reality to make money for someone else so the name of the game is if making money is getting eyeballs and clicks do things to get eyeballs and clicks why do people write about elon musk is it because of the vision some most because he's got tens of millions of followers all around the world he's this whirlwind of magic and chaos and controversy and so forth so you just mentioned the key word elon musk comes up in people's feet oh i gotta click that what's musk doing now oh my god he named his baby something weird musky that's simple so how do you make it better well you make it better by changing the system to win the game you got to change the game so you're a student you're entering this space you want to do better well let's start with veracity bonds when you write something as a journalist more often than not there are no consequences the libel laws work in a certain way i've been reading them recently but you know they work in a certain way where most often that you can just write stuff that's horrible and as long as you got some proper sourcing you're legally in the clear so wouldn't it be cool to have veracity bonds connected to a story so when you publish something you don't just publish it put your brand and name and institutions name and reputation on the line but you put good earned money on the line crypto because the other money is becoming worthless veracity bond well that's interesting and what happens if what you've written turns out to be factually incorrect and there's some sort of way of checking that you lose the bond so when i read a story in the future where journalism is not so bad i say huh is there a veracity bond for this yes okay how much and who checks it seems pretty credible good that's something is there a veracity no it's the batboy at the grocery checkout line i guess he's getting married now okay it's not a real thing okay so you think about what incentives do people have to curate information to attest that the information is correct and what incentives do people have to consume and share and when people share what you write how much vouching do they have for all of you listening you probably have a social media account i'm travel casting on social media accounts so when you verifies that when you share something on your facebook page or twitter for a retweet or any of these things do you read it do you check it do you sit down and think what what i just read am i 100 certain absolutely certain that that's right or he's like oh man that's a [ __ ] up headline i didn't know that guy did that click retweet twitter started warning people that uh you probably should read the article before you retweet it because more than 50 of people were retweeting tweets for articles just based on what they read in the headline they actually didn't click the article and read it and they're sharing it they're propagating it so another side of information is not just the veracity of the document but we as the surrogates as the viral spreaders as the people who are actually propagating it across our social graph need to vouch for it put reputation on it let people know the story when you retweet i retweeted without reading i don't know it's unverified do this in the intelligence business any piece of actionable intelligence the mosaic of intelligence is labeled if you have an informant you have any of these things they'll say well we don't really know it's not a very credible thing or the assessment is milky the human doesn't agree with the os and doesn't agree with the second there's this issue there's this issue satellite reconnaissance shows different things than what the drones were showing or we think there might be an issue here and then you try to put it all together and then decide the preponderance of the evidence why don't we do this with media because it's hard it's expensive it's time consuming so if you want to be effective go be the next rupert murdoch and be the rupert murdoch dawson who builds a blockchain based journalist system that has veracity bonds and has a new network for how people share and vet information it creates incentives for people to read things instead of blindly click like or dislike or have a visceral reaction and so forth and change the advertising model like bats has done learn about brave and bats master that and create incentives for investigative journalism the stronger the incentives are for investigative journalism the better those incentives are for investigative journalism the better investigative journalism we have the stronger it is and we'll get it done or you could enter the system that gave us cnn and fox news and all these other things of hyper partisanship and the politics of division and shallowness and click baiting and chasing and so forth it's a dreary field and it's sad because the media is necessary to call truth to power it's also necessary to help us as a society understand reality as it is because we don't have the time and it's a broken institution because of wrong incentives and bad leadership we fix institutions in cryptocurrency space now you're thinking politicians should use that bonding model to verify their bs oh my god could you imagine living in a world where every political statement is backed by money yeah they get a little bit more careful with their speech they just start pulling bill clinton they'd be like that depends on the meaning of is is hmm [Music] [Music] hey charles we share the same birthday many of you know i was born november 5th good good day remember remember the fifth of november scorpio scorpio's unite how's 34 treating you i'm 34 going on 54. i feel so old you know i've lived a hard life and i'm trying to get back to being young again although the hairline the hairline is not so kind i hope you're fearing better adam it looks like from your picture your hair is better but i don't know i don't know is that is that a current pitcher or an old one this is a great question you have plenty of money why no employ more people for faster development of cardano okay you can't hire any more people for linear processes there's a very well known series of laws and principles and software development that adding more people to a team after a certain point does not actually produce better results okay it's kind of like a bathroom mat that's already fully saturated or a sponge that's already filled you can pour as much water as you want on it no more water is going in okay the sponge is saturated uh and we're at capacity there's hundreds of people floating around more than 15 companies floating around just on infrastructure and everybody's working their tail bones off but things have to be built in some cases in linear processes others are parallel there's a modular architecture the node team is very different from the network team very different from the consensus team very different from the plutus team very different from the interfaces team very different from the daedalus team very different from the adrestia team and that's just core infrastructure then you have the constellation of things like people working with dap developers those are very different than the formal methods team very different from the academic team all working in parallel including the hydro team working at parallel more than 15 companies hundreds of developers we can't hire any more people because they're saturated each team is full capacity every now and then you get an opening every now and then you find that you can do something in parallel and you add more resources which is why we have float teams then there's the qa teams and the devops teams and so forth and they pre-do as much work as possible can't hire more people can't hire your way out of it good work takes time building cryptocurrencies is hard don't believe me look at the 10 billion dollars of hacks charles looks like a death no i'm a hype man no technical skills don't know what i'm doing charles what did this shirt say it's a duck hunting place called honey break i don't want the digibyte question oh this is actually a good one i think it's a nice one to end on can you dump down side chains okay so one of the design requirements of cardano that i i wrote and i wrote the original white paper for cardano y cardone i wrote the whole thing in like five days of coffee and madness and drinking lots of lattes and you know just staying up way too late but basically i said there's this idea of a cardinal settlement layer an idea of a cardinal control layer or computation layer i never settled on a common vocabulary for it so let's call computation layer your settlement layer is a root of trust your control layers or things that live above it and basically the settlement layer has a narrow view of expressiveness and computation and it is really reliable and then you use something about that to spin out chains above many computation layers and each one has a different computational model evm and plutus and this and that and this and that and this and that okay now because you have a strong root of trust you can use that to bootstrap permission protocols in the control layers that are very fast so there are protocols like bft simple like the tendermint protocol of obft rapid chain hundreds of these things al grant in a certain respect certain variants of it that run in a bft mode that is has a permission quorum you could take the dele the stake pools and sortition them in some way pick a quorum and run and have them run the network for five days so you get all the benefits of a permission network you get synchronous communication you get fast finality you get high throughput bft simple runs a thousand transactions per second but you get the trust model of the root of trust of the underlying network it's basically what these binance smart chain guys are doing and the rest are doing it's not rocket science it's a known thing in system design or boris was designed this way so as we roll out the side chains designs what we're going to do is show how the community can propose and launch a side chain they don't need to go ask permission there's no foundation that sits there and thinks and cogitates what side chain should we have it's a process and where we excel is we make sure we build a really beautiful bridge mechanism and other things to be a standard kit of things you do to stay compatible but then when you launch it you get the obft quorum stake pool operators get multiple revenue streams because they get ada plus the side chains they're maintaining win-win for everybody and now you have a different computation model you have different network logic different uh rules uh for consensus you have different computations a different notion of smart contracts oh extended utxo is so hard i can't figure it out oh pluto programming so hard i don't know oh no fine [ __ ] it do accounts in solidity okay great you're an over glorified node developer huzzah go do it okay don't don't complain about it just go do it that side chain exists it's there better faster cheaper than ethereum thousand times so pretty simple that's the model and you got that with auroboros we designed the protocol painstaking design over a six year period we thought a lot about it we wrote a lot of papers okay we thought really carefully how do you build a coherent model proof-of-stake side-chains 2018 parallel chains 2018 obft i think it was 2019 or 2018. all the aurobori classic prows genesis crepsinas chromos it's concerros we call that one ledger redux it is a whole bunch of them okay all of these things mithral if you have cross-chain communication between the side chains and the main chain you'd like that something on the side chain can talk to something on the main chain and vice versa and they don't have to possess the full ledger for that to be secure you need a proof certificate obft you can do that simply proof of stake you can do that simply you can exchange certificates you don't need the full chain okay it's a side chain ecosystem so why it's so [ __ ] crazy all these people are cardinal cats girl it's like mr plinkett my god i feel like i'm george lucas getting [ __ ] up by mr plinkett going after the damn prequels oh i don't like this this way it was really bad it's where we're at guys it's not rocket science a lot of this is settled science a lot of the cell design the very people you praise when you attack card auto have embraced similar architectures only ours is better faster cheaper and more secure and it's backed by actual rigor for god sakes which means that when the network is under high throughput in this model it won't break and you don't have to kick it to turn it back on like a [ __ ] weird-ass refrigerator it's that simple so it dumbing it down slow breeds fast common infrastructure open ecosystem if there's enough value that something real could be created it will be created and stake pool operators get multiple revenue streams so the cardano of 2023 when we have a big sidechain ecosystem and you're an spo you make eta plus plus plus plus plus and you're running lots of nodes not just one node your hardware requirements go up but your revenue goes up and you become a different type of node the user either an agent human or otherwise non-human would be a dap or a machine human would be you the user you get all these messages being passed and some sort of pub sub and you get all of these certificates proofs that come through and you can check them it's not rocket science the papers are there the designs are there and they're being rolled out this year because we're in the basho era we're in the volterra era we need to do these things we have to connect catalyst to the main network we have to connect mamba to the main network raw just like that but once it's done there's a model for how to do it and then you the community will do the next one it's like medicine learn do teach we are in the do side we had to learn that was the last four years and once we're done with do there's to teach okay so teach you how to do it then you do it then you teach somebody and you build a big tent lots of money big ecosystem [Music] hmm hmm [Music] night chuck i think that's sound advice i'm just looking to see if there is a uh such a [ __ ] creepy question charles what are you gonna let me come down to boulder county and photograph you [Music] come on man ask good different i'm sure you're a nice guy please oh it's too late okay it's midnight here jesus ah tomorrow's gonna be a fun day get up work out gonna get it done see if there's anything else here good one end on huh charles is there a single aspect of ethereum that is better than cardano in your opinion well car ethereum in its current instantiation is a subset of cardona once side chains come everything ethereum is cardano is they're combined together it's like the real numbers to the integers there's a lot more of them and they do a lot more things but the integers are contained within the real numbers okay so uh from a technological viewpoint layer one i'm not so worried about it um the layer two ecosystem is fascinating roll-ups in particular there's a lot of magic there and i admire that greatly and i think we can do better as an ecosystem and there's a hundred and fifty thousand dollars of funding from catalyst to chase that there are some ventures that are chasing that and we are researching roll-ups for the hydra tail protocol in particular so i think a lot can be done be above and beyond what we're doing and the ethereum space is doing interesting things there and they're really impressive things that are happening there is an interesting thing about community building you know if you're intellectually honest ethereum has a humongous community um i personally sometimes have some issues with that community above and beyond their distaste for me i think there's a lot of elitism and arrogance in it and smarminess in it and it's the man button syndrome yes that's a personal taste and preference but it's undeniable the pervasiveness of ethereum it's undeniable that those people are also quite effective there is a problem-solving mindset that exists within ethereum that is seldom seen in the rest of the cryptocurrency space where people don't just [ __ ] and complain about things or go to some sort of ideological religion they actually try to solve stuff and i think it's a testimony to good leadership from vitalik he's very solutions oriented person and he's a very execution oriented person while there's depth and philosophy there there's always an engineering mindset of build it build it build it build it and there's a persistence there uh that is quite impressive and i admire that and at times i think it we can be as an ecosystem a bit too academic whereas they're the other extreme the pendulum goes all the way over and they're very engineering focused academic second although we're both kind of meeting in the middle as as projects i think the other thing that ethereum has done very well they've been a very effective communicator as an ecosystem about blockchain utility that's non-monetary before ethereum the name of the game was bitcoin altcoin token token somehow connected to finance and not a lot of diversity and then there was ideas about extending financial capabilities color coins master coin these were the projects that i grew up with my generation and they were all about saying let's increase what you can do like issue a token or do a contract or something like that but ethereum came around and then suddenly you have nsts and suddenly we have all these other things oracles and video games all kinds of weird experiences like metaverse stuff it's pretty cool and ethereum was the first mover in that and there's still a lot of strength and momentum in that community about dreaming big you know building big doing things a little differently and there's uh an amazing renewal year after year that is enduring and um a culture that doesn't take itself so seriously uh it's a taste and preference thing you go to consensus you get a lot of people suit and tie a lot of business being done very uh very professional vc's there a lot of you go to denver and it's vitalik wearing a bear suit and unicorns and songs and merry making and drug rooms literally the third floor of the castle laser light show and a guy's like i love aetherium is so great yes that's and that's how it was four years ago they haven't lost that it's not an act it's not a show there's a a culture there for better for worse and it's very different from the cardano culture are the people who are in our ecosystem that tend to be many cases um there's there's a bimodal distribution uh one tends to be blue-collar and they're very philosophical motivated and they hate institutions they think they need to be better and then there tends to be a academic white collar or professional white color where they grew up with a love and appreciation of the processes we follow and they they like that there's a return to that it's so it's a meet in the middle of both blue and white color in that respect and it's very diverse as a result and i've met incredible people make whale books artists photographers governors you know i've met doctors lawyers computer scientists it's a very big test the achilles heel of the ethereum movement though is their inability as a movement in my view to understand where they have blind spots or cognitive biases or undo unfair thoughts maybe i'm just because i've been on the receiving end of it but not a lot of people rank and file in ethereum land will acknowledge that cardano has done legitimately interesting things like the interview recently with uh the author who shall remain nameless and in a podcaster asking if cardano is a legitimate competitor to ethereum there was nothing said there first it was well cardano i don't know much about it okay that's fair you leave it at that but instead it's i don't know much about it but i believe there's nothing there they've had difficulty launching smart contracts there's so much magic in what we've done so much careful thought so many thousands of conversations so many thousands of meetings and countless hours writing code and doing science and building things that go into who we are what we've done and that's all in the open for everybody in the space for better or for worse to utilize you can't with a project that has committed so much work to paper just off hand dismiss it because of your personal distaste for the founder and the fact that an entire ecosystem in some way has succumbed to that that doesn't bode very well for the future because that's ultimately to their detriment if you're smart you learn from other people's mistakes you learn from where other people have not done things well or done things well competitive analysis intelligence really helps you out you see this in great engineering biomimicry is a great example of that for any structure any design anything you look at you always ask did nature already do it because if it did i have a starting point who am i to argue with millions of years of evolution go copy it radar steel steve jobs used to say that everything we've done is a potential point of conversation and inquiry and interest and we fostered an environment in our ecosystem because of the academic process where we love talking to people we love engaging we love debating we love peer review we love the discussion we love making things better being smart we love collaboration we write papers with so many people it's not an echo chamber if you look at the authors on the papers you look at the code there's so many contributors who don't work for us who came in for one particular thing or another because they happen to be interested in or look at our work and build and improve our work even when they disagree with us so if you have a blind spot to that amazing movement all you're doing is saying everything that they've learned and all the pain they've gone through we as an ecosystem are just gonna go replicate that and pay the same price that they paid why would you do that does that make any sense if you're walking and you see the guy ahead of you fall into a pit would you be like well i have to fall in that pit too no you walk around the pit pretty common sense right but that's literally what's happening in many cases with consensus research or other such things or the fallacy of the accounts based model being the appenecha of scalability it's nuts is what it is the dog barks caravan moves on and um people sometimes do and say things because of the incentives they have but i'd say that's the only flaw in that community that really holds them back and it's not just cardano it's other things like solana and so forth there's goodness there protocol design needs to be improved but there's goodness there and all of these different protocols whether it be harmony or iota there's there's something there to learn from and be inspired from and if you're you have a beginner's mind and you're humble you can work your way through it you can just go to chalkboard you can think about it you can solve it and you can get to a better place and if you have an ecosystem where that humility is lacking and there's an arrogance all you're doing is you're just shooting yourself in the foot anyway is what it is until next time everybody charles hoskinson signing off from warm sunny colorado as i said and promised we began february 21st we ended february 22nd until next time my friends this was a fun two and two hours and 44 minutes i'll
