this is charles hoskinson broadcasting live from warm sunny colorado always warm always sunny sometimes colorado today is november 21st get pretty close to thanksgiving and it is 20 21. and today sunday sunday sunday sunday is amateur so things are kind of moving along you know certain countries don't celebrate thanksgiving it's kind of an american holiday canadian holiday october november uh europe not so much asia not so much so development continues people are chugging away working hard us americans we're getting ready for a slow week uh next week but uh things looking pretty good uh dead list 4.5.1 uh just came out and we've started a large program for user experience enhancements to daedalus we've collected an enormous amount of feedback and you know a big priority for a long period of time we're getting new features out and getting things done correctly now for 2022 a big priority is optimization and performance improvements so we're going to start looking at everything from memory utilization sync time and just things that make the application fast uh and start integrating that in same time there's a parallel track with mithril mithril does two things one it allows you to run in a light client mode that is as secure as the full client mode and then two it allows for parallel validation of epics which means that you can scale to as many processing cores as your computer has so your constraint are is your network and your course so that should massively speed things up a lot of other little optimizations are coming and it's a very high priority floor our director of engineering's on it roman is on it john woods is on it people care a lot um script compression is another area that we've been thinking pluto's templates or another area so those are on chain libraries for smart contracts to reference and we are digging deeply into the read-only utxo proposals and just trying to figure out where and how to do that while preserving determinism inside the system so this is kind of the tale of plutus optimization so basically every month new features come new ideas come and you have three upgrade windows per year february june october for hfc events and that delivery chain will augment ledger changes there and meanwhile software just gets optimized so you'll have probably three to six week sprints releases no more than 12 a year but more likely about eight to nine minor releases to immediate really medium releases per year and then three big releases so that's kind of a time delivery train and we're moving in that direction and that's for the core software and then there's a lot of stuff that's out of band like interfaces uh dbsync you know these types of things so it's really shaping up to be a very systematic software project and turning it into a full open source project because all the code is open source but there needs to be better governance in that respect and collaboration that respects still somewhat hierarchical amongst the core entities is going to be a big emphasis of 2022 and that should accelerate things as well if it's done correctly so from a development viewpoint things are looking good pabs looking good too so pab got integrated with the test net it's being tested now with a lot of launch partners and they're kind of working with it there's of course a life cycle on that uh and infrastructure is being turned on for it so it was really a november december thing and either december january it looks like for mainnet but it's kind of an iterative process so you know it is what it is but the thing is that now that it's out it can be used on both test n and mainnet and it's really the dap developers level of comfort with that tooling so this is not like a light switch where you flip it and you say oh well the piv is available today no it's actually a spectrum where you have it and then as a dab developer you make a decision is this useful to you or are you waiting for some functionality with it or some thing with it for your particular gap or you know where are you at but if you're debt developing you're saying you're going to deploy first to the test net and you're going to do that for a few months just to kind of make sure that everything looks good and that's why it's the test net and then you can roll it up to the main net but overall uh pav is looking good a lot of little things to do here and there but that's to be expected with new software and infrastructure now plenty of people built without the pab like space bugs and others uh and actually we implemented hydra the hydra head protocol and pluto's without the police application back end so there are certainly ways you can either circumvent it or build without it uh depending upon the nature of the application and pav is one of those iterative targets where yeah there's new versions all the time like db sync or the rosetta integration or other things and those new versions basically add more capabilities or improve uh issues or speed things up or find more uh you know easy ways of integrating stuff and so forth but it's a very vibrant ecosystem there's well more than 100 different people wanting to build dapps and get them into cardano and get business models turned on within a three to six month time horizon uh and uh really the february babbage fork is kind of the cleanup where a lot of things to optimize what they're trying to do will come online then and then the following in june for that the problem is that there's enormous amounts of misinformation that exists in space and just straight up lies and flood and other things and every single time we try to tell people how the process is working people selectively listen and they just pull things out for example i just said february and june now saying that somebody on twitter read it telegram blogger youtuber somebody will take that out of context and say smart contracts are coming till june they're already here they're already running the infrastructure is here optimizations are continuous so they get cheaper faster better user experience over time and new features and functionality come in to augment and enhance dapps but let's be very clear it's here it's running it's live smart contracts are online we've written some ourselves you the community participated and named the lobster on my microphone in my office uh because of smart contracts and people just continue to lie and lie and lie and lie and lie the other thing is apparently people don't understand how software optimization works premature optimization is the root of all evil in software so you focus on correctness and get your right designs in and then after you've done that then you start optimizing and there's a pareto principle a little bit of work gets you dramatic performance improvements and then there's a long tail and you have to make a decision of how far do you want to take that tail through and there are protocols not science but existing protocols meaning that they're already designed by the scientists we already know they're secure we're not waiting for a peer-reviewed paper we're not waiting for a conference none of these things they're written down on paper and they're being debated by engineers about the implementation path for that like pipelining for example and then also [Music] input endorsers so conceptually the way you think about input endorsers is it achieves the same ends that a lot of these dag protocols achieve where you have a heartbeat that kind of serializes things and creates a total order and then in the meantime you collect and batch lots of transactions that occur and you allow some inconsistencies there because when the heart beats it solves all of those just like what you see with iota and phantom and just like you see with all these other things writing blog posts explaining how that works and that's something that's being put into the genesis era pipelining will come first because that's a very uh easy optimization now these two things alone can allow us to get to significantly larger block sizes the megabyte range and will get us a 20 to 40 x and these are things that we're going to push like hell to get done in 2022 alongside all the other stuff like the utxo hd and mithril and hydra and catalyst and the side chains and so forth okay there are 12 development teams working concurrently okay at the same time to deliver an enormous train of features not sequentially but yet again more lies more fear more uncertainty and i'm just getting damn tired of it i really am it is incredibly frustrating when you run a professional project that has bi-monthly updates a mid-month update and then a month update you write blog posts on a regular basis you do amas on an almost weekly basis uh and you go out there and you show everybody what you're doing everything's out in the open you have get out repos you can see the release tags in the repos you see the progress week by week by week by week you see the enormity of the amount of companies and people that are working on this like look at the essential cardano list and despite all of that there seems to be an a huge flood storm and misinformation campaign not just being conducted by trolls on twitter but by venture capitalists uh by uh other projects in the industry uh by people who should know better and it's getting really tiring it really is it doesn't slow us down uh it actually just pisses us off a little bit might speed us up a little bit because we're getting a little a little rough you know people have built whole ecosystems around the innovations of just one of our papers like recursive snarks for example in mina effectively that's what mithril accomplishes for us that's one paper out of 125 that we've written if you look at the orborus agenda and how this thing is pushed out in all the problems that have been solved from ledger redux to chronos and so forth you'll see terms like fast finality and subjectivity we don't really have to worry about that as an ecosystem the theory is on bedrock and we know exactly how to roll things out looks like throughput is going to be a high priority for 2022. so go do that you get fast finality from the side chains and from the hydra network pretty good bundling of features and functionality so it's uh it's a little bizarre you know you try not to let it bother you but it does bother some people in the community and it creates just so much noise uh now on the other hand the collaborations with the dap developers has been uh very very good we've learned a lot working with talking people from mel and sunday and other things and they just keep coming to us on a weekly basis and there's an overwhelming demand there progress on the certification program is also looking good we have three certification levels one two and three we've been working very closely with runtime verification they're actually working right now on case semantics for plutus and we're trying to build a bunch of certification levels and tooling uh they call it the alpha frontier program i just posted a blog an article today from decrypt they said 10.5 billion not million billion dollars has been stolen or lost to fraud or design flaws as a consequence of poorly written d5 either it has back doors or the developers that know what they were doing or there was protocol flaws or people steal money or gain the system 10.5 billion dollars of value this year alone because of crummy software that's why certified software is necessary because right now the financial incentives are move fast and break things they get the money you get the bill again move fast to break things they get the money you get the bill that's d5 today real five is about certification okay you get a math proof you get some artifact that shows you that the protocol is designed correctly the first example of that is jet you know and we've been working real hard to get a reference kind of like hyperloop what elon musk did there so that that reference is there for the community and ecosystem to use and cody is already hard at work taking this stuff and commercializing it for their own business but they're going to be others who do that as well you see and that's the power of this ecosystem so there are dexes we published a blog post about concurrency with working code showing how to actually use different design patterns to deploy highly concurrent code with extended utxo and more to come more design patterns to come more infrastructure to come to further facilitate that don't like the extended utxo model no comedia is here uh and it's already starting to accrue interest and that's coming imminently in the next 60 to 90 days and i think they're already on the test net side of things and that's full evm interoperability with ether with cardano so you have that option and then there's obviously mamba we're right now hard at work writing down all the specifications for the sidechain protocol and that will be used for yellow for catalyst and it will be used for evm running in obft mode okay so that's underway and there's tons of optimizations that can be done with obft to make it incredibly high performance because ultimately it's a permission system your root of trust comes from or boris at the base ledger that is what we accomplished that's what's worth a trillion dollars with bitcoin and we did that better than everybody else and as the price of ada goes up that gets more decentralized energy consumption per user goes down it gets optimized opposite dynamics with bitcoin with that root of trust you can bootstrap many permission ledgers that can be used for computation you read the original cardano white paper remember paul halmos tell them what you're going to do do it and tell them what you did okay so we told you what we were going to do in 2016. cslccl cardo settlement layer cardinal computation or control layer so those side chains those are control layers computation layers which can be highly optimized and because you have a solid root of trust at the base level it has the same trust model as the base legend okay and that's what's happening and we have a great team of people doing that we know it works because we took all the knowledge that we gained from building a full ethereum classic note and we've rolled it on over to cardano that entire team got moved over it's great scala code it's very nice it's getting optimized a lot of qa has been done a lot of performance improvements we're just about to get into the audit side of things and evm runs there don't like that use the milkmedia evm okay so if you want accounts model you want to live in that weird world go ahead it's there and all the ethereum tooling works there just better faster and cheaper on cardano but again lots of fear lots of uncertainty a lot of disinformation uh especially from places i didn't expect to see it people still saying cardano's a gambling coin or started as a gambling coin which is bizarre i was kind of there in the beginning it's not if you see some japanese website saying well there's a reference use case yeah 2015 2016 crypto in asia a lot of people wrote websites talking about these things but it's a general purpose smart contracting stack which was the unused roadmap that i had from ethereum which was 2013-2014 and had i stated ethereum would have looked that way but i didn't got pushed out but okay let's just lie let's just lie it's what people are doing and it's not going to stop it's only going to get worse you know but facts are tricky things and you can have your own opinion but you can't have your own facts and they are absolutely clear every single week you see it every single day you can see the github repositories you can see the release cycle you can see how things are improving you can see the totality of so many different companies independent companies working towards this end you can see a large dapp ecosystem is starting to ferment and of course takes time for that it doesn't happen instantaneously these are businesses too these are developers too they're not us we don't own them they're an ecosystem which means they have to grow they have to build real businesses and it took about three years for this to occur on ethereum the fact that within three to six months that first wave is coming financed by catalyst isos and other things bootstrapped by the cardona ecosystem is an extraordinary acceleration over what we've seen okay some vcs are saying that no one's pitched them cardano related stuff well the c fund uh we've been investing in various things here and there we've got 189 return from our venture capital fund with the money that we've put in pretty good doing well there catalyst has given away i has given grants for over 300 projects in 2021. 300 at this current growth of funding it could be up to 2 000. in 2022 so we're seeing a lot of interest floating around and a lot of companies are coming they want to migrate or do something with cardinal like possession for example but i guess it just depends on where you look or you can ask venture capitalists whose business partners said we're affiliated with organized crime as a credible resource or you can ask 20 of your developer friends as a credible resource for these things so anyway that's a brief update the water outside is a little choppy the water inside the cardinal land actually isn't we've never been this efficient we've never been moving this smoothly and it is what it is and it is what you make it as i mentioned my prior video we seem to live in a post-truth economy facts don't matter the truth doesn't matter opinion and subjectivity is all that matters feelings are all that matters and unfortunately crypto is at times guided by that but that's not a permanent state of affairs i have to believe there'll be a return to objectivity and sanity and uh like highlander we will be the last man standing okay let's get to your questions why does cardano have so many quote enemies i really try to understand all the haters but i honestly can't well it's pretty easy when you look at incentives uh cardano's not a vc coin there are plenty of vc coins for your usual suspects like polychain and tracing horowitz and others came in and if you look at the distributions of these things a small group of people got fabulously wealthy if the vc coin succeeds you know they had layered sales and so forth cardinal like ethereum it came from different routes and uh bitcoin before it so you always look to incentives you know people making money and if they're making money then it kind of explains why they say and do what they do and also it's not sexy in certain respects boy and who wants to buy peer-reviewed research and work hard and you know it takes a while to get something done move fast and break things is always fun because you get something in your dopamine economy you know every day every week it's the latest thing and of course you get people like this right here he comes on in thinks he's going to get insanely rich calls me a scammer for what because i've built a project and it's doing incredibly well and by every metric we're looking good but you're not doing so well because you bought at an inconvenient time so everything is bad because you have this shiba inu coin dogecoin mentality you see and that's the part of the noise and so those are the two sides of it one is bot media and the vc coin itis and then the other is the it's just the angry fair weather person who has unrealistic expectations how do we sign up or pay to participate yearly bison hunt you have on your ranch is it open paying people just designated people uh paying people we're completely rebounding and rebuilding the whole thing and uh there'll be a website up for it usually takes place september to november so the hunts are nearly done about 7 500 bison per year they live on an amazing life they kind of roam around all 11 000 acres eat the grass they live like proper bison uh you know the way bison lived 500 years ago and when they get right perfect age that's when people go and hunt them and then they process them and you get about 600 pounds to 1000 pounds of meat so a few hundred kilograms of uh of meat and uh you can get your bison mount and all those other things or the bison coke if you want to uh and it's uh real really a lot of fun and i tell you it's the best way to get meat as the tastiest meat you'll ever have no antibiotics no vaccines no hormones and it's grass-fed hi charles i have an ambitious project in mind i want to make cardano the backbone of transactions on the site how do i go about doing this where and how can i start i'd go to catalyst so if you google cardano catalyst idea scale you can find the website and we're actually hiring some ui ux people come rebuild that whole experience so that it's a little easier um but basically go in there and submit your idea you know and even even if you're not really seeking a lot of funding the fact that you go through that pipeline you'll learn a lot and uh what we're also going to do is create some educational paths okay so two in particular one is uh and they're both free courses of course and catalyst is free to use but one is i want to work for cardano meaning i want to do something in the cardano ecosystem and the point of the course is to kind of walk you through all the different archetypes and roles and things that one can do it's not just for developers the other is i have a business and i want to build something on cardano or integrate something in my business or launch a cardonal dab so these are different paths you're more in the latter than the former uh but they're both very valuable and we're gonna make sure that there's some dedicated content there we did the prism pioneers we did the pluto's pioneers we're going to continue doing those pioneer programs we're also restarting the in-person training for haskell in ghana uh but uh it's very important that we continue pushing that mooc-based education and get people set up because all the time people come to me and say i want to do something cardinal i don't know what to do so i'd love to be able to give him a class and say take this and by the end of it you'll know exactly what's for you and you'll know where to go uh but the forums are great post your idea there and idea scale is great post your idea there you might be able to get some funding for it any progress with your biotech company yeah we're making a little bit of progress here and there not as fast as i want but 2022 is going to be the time for it just too many things happen this year so i wasn't able to push too hard and my dad brother were doing a few things to close out prior affairs and unfortunately that meant that we could make all of the progress we made but we've certainly had a lot of conversations we've learned a lot about exosomes and pemf and photobiomodulation and hyperbaric treatments and all kinds of things about some anti-inflammatory drugs um read a lot of books you know and you know it's a process you kind of work your way through it not in a huge rush but it's one of those things that is you invest a lot over time you get exponential growth so there we go yeah this is an interesting one hi charles what do you think about the kyle rittenhouse case everybody's just in silence right now you know the thing that bothered me the most about this entire case was that i don't understand why he was there his mother drove him there you know family member drove him there and like as a parent or somebody in a position over a child why would you be like here here's this gun and go to this location with all this stuff going on and uh you know best of luck i mean that's the place for police and soldiers to go it's not the place for 17 year old kids to go so shouldn't have been there in the first place um it's an interesting case there's certainly a lot of prosecutorial misconduct there incompetent prosecutors the charges were probably too vast for what they were looking for so they overstepped and there was a lot of cases where it looked like they were trying to cause a mistrial uh so they get another shot because they didn't quite get the testimony that they were looking for and this is the problem when politics gets so deeply ingrained in the judicial system uh you know there's this either under reaction or overreaction and you never really get any notion of justice now i think what's going to happen is it's going to be like the o.j simpson case where he gets acquitted but then there's a civil case uh and probably ends up getting sued and lots of money change his hands as a result so he's certainly not completely out of hot water and it's just a human tragedy you know say what you will about the whole event people died and um the re the right response from society is to look at the macro and ask fundamental questions why did people die and how did we get here instead of the micro in saying that this is somehow an indication of a systemic this or systemic that or just an example of how fundamentally unfair society is or you know he's a hero or any of these things it's not the right approach you have to take a step back and see how did we get here why did we get here and kind of work your way through it um and that's all i'm going to say about it you know it's uh you know i wasn't there and the facts and circumstances are quite difficult and there's a lot of moving pieces to this entire conversation and uh the vast majority of people who are consuming the narrative whether it be from the right-wing media or the mainstream media they just simply don't have the right facts and the right and the right perspective in this matter it's more of a meta problem of why does society allow these types of things to happen and there's a lot of blame to go all around from kyle himself to his parents to the media to the prosecutor uh and others you know and um we just have to move on and if it's going to be meaningful at all we have to gain some wisdom as a society in these in this respect and hopefully avoid these things from happening again or we can just get really angry and you know just say over-reactionary things and believe america is a horrible country or rah-rah you know and then we'll just keep digging deeper and more and more and more of these incidents will happen and less and less justice will occur how do you make nfts private so only token holders get access to its content um so nfts uh can be made private using zero knowledge crypto um so there's a naive way to do it you know the wu-tang gang way where you have a private album or a private thing and you privately share it with people you can store the ip in a trusted enclave that can only be accessed in a certain way or it can use some sort of clever mpc or or zero knowledge stuff and that's kind of the next generation of nfts so that'll come the next 24 months i think looking back at your bermuda ted talk what was your proudest moment since then i'd say the launch of shelley that was just a huge burden finally lifted it was like so many pieces had to come together for shelley uh and also the launch of gogan in the in the recent summit that we had was another huge highlight i'm building a metaverse what is mainnet out it's out it's out this is what i'm talking about so many lies get told that people actually believe cardano is not in a maine net does not have smart contracts you can build today today and deploy today not a year from now today to cardano we tell you to use the test net because you're using fake ada and you can things up and write it the wrong way uh and then you can fix it if you're using the main net it's real money and you know if you screw something up that's on you and your users it's another common misconception why does michael novogratz hate cardano i don't think he hates card i don't think he hates anything in this space guy is talking its book you know when you're a billionaire and you've made bets bet bet bet bet you're going to talk your book and you're going to do those bets and things are outside your scope you know that is what it is you know if he had bought ada he'd be saying we're the greatest thing ever you know 20 yeah i talked to 20 brilliant people they all tell me cardano's the best thing ever so people talk their book so uh it tells you a lot who criticizes you look at the criticism bitcoin is getting right now you know hillary clinton is coming out all these swamp creatures are coming out bitcoin is bad it's destabilizing the us economy it's this terrible thing ah the people who love the legacy system and control and are creatures of the swamp or saying cryptocurrencies are a threat why because you get to be your own bank you get a deflationary monetary instead of an inflationary monetary policy you don't get to print 40 percent of all the money in circulation in the last 18 months huh you see so people talk their book the political class has a book the banking class has a book the vc class has a book and so forth and you know it's uh it is what it is and so don't don't put undue emotions or feelings in these in this respect things change in 24 36 months if we pull off all the stuff we say we're going to pull off you'll probably be our biggest fan and say oh well you know that was the past you know and you welcome them with open arms because they're mercenaries in that respect charles what are your thoughts on rollups uh zk syncs darkware like solutions cardano can hydra and rollups go hand in hand you said rollups will be big in five to ten years but it's already here well they are in the art you know that they are for certain classes of problems and use cases but they're getting better year by year when i say big in five to ten meaning i say every system has some notion of that i think it'd be easier to do roll ups and uh you extend you take so style model than it would be in an account style model and the thing is we'll get rollups for free with mamba so when the evm sidechain comes those roll-up infrastructures can and will be rolled over as a scalability solution for the evm side chain now the question is do we need roll-ups on the main chain i think as a continuation of the mithral research stream uh probably something that can be done and actually i suspect several dexes are gonna move in that particular direction so it's definitely something there it's a buy instead of build because there's already a lot of great solutions and it's important to understand they're l2 so they're somewhat agnostic and we'll get them on the ethereum side first but certainly it's going to be fun to deport some of those to the extended utxo model and we have a lot of zk infrastructure we've designed like sonics for example and we've seen a lot of great progress with plonk and there's a lot of next generation zk stuff that's coming online now starkware made some interesting design choices which were future proof from a prescient viewpoint i think they use some hash based crypto so they're post quantum but they're not quite as efficient as the classical stuff that's there but it's a fast growing field and you know we're pragmatic as anybody else and that actually is a great venture for somebody wanting to do something on cardano um catalyst funds will be made available and you know i suspect there's probably going to be a a roll-up round that occurs or a zk round that occurs and we'll see a whole wave of zk companies come in i think we're actually one of the best positioned of the ventures in the crypto space to pursue this because we have the closest connection to academia and to uh contractors that implement cryptographic algorithms for example um galwa is the entity that's implementing mithril at the moment and uh they're they're incredible at cryptographic engineering they're a very very smart company it would not be hard to extend that contract to say hey let's go do some roll-up stuff and so forth so five to ten for the really good stuff but you're absolutely right there are intermediate solutions that exist and they'll come they'll percolate their way in how is privacy on cardano so one area i really think would be cool to improve is introducing proxy keys so it's something i've been wanting to do for a while and we're having discussions on the best way to do it but a separation of the cold and hot infrastructure so the basic idea is you can have three key chains spending key voting key and staking key there's a kind of a primary secondary so the primary would be the spending and the secondary would be the staking and delegation uh the staking and voting keys excuse me and you could either directly delegate with them or what you can do is you can create a new key chain that's just a staking key and a voting key and we can call those proxy keys and the idea is that you would sign a transaction that would enable those keys to act on behalf of the original keychain now the advantage here is that the proxy keys could live on the hot wallet so daedalus uroy and so forth and then your main key chain could be on your cold infrastructure a paper wallet hardware wallet that's kind of the naive way of doing things but that connection between the proxy keys and the main key chain you may be able to use a snark in that connection and if that's the case then what would happen is that privacy only goes in one direction i should say transparency only goes in one direction so the proxy keys to the main key chain you wouldn't be able to connect them so that's a private system private delegation private voting but then on the main chain you can see in the other direction transparent so you can identify the proxy keys so your wallet would show you your preferences but the other way it's confidential so i think that's probably the best way of introducing something and then actually that primitive could be reused uh for transactional privacy as well but there are more regulatory questions that we'd have to think carefully about and probably metadata would be enough to get it there with encrypted divs or something like that but yeah that's definitely something we're looking into um it'll have to come a little later down the road map so second half of 2022 likely because there's so much to do in the first two major releases but it's definitely something that we're looking for a protocol for that makes sense uh the other problem with these things is that they tend to introduce a lot of bloat to the system and that's not where you'd want to be so we we have to be very careful and uh true to form this is actually the question i was addressing earlier what can the average person who doesn't understand programming do to help cardone succeed that's why that class needs to exist okay and this is the wrong thinking hydra release date you see everybody's just looking for this like this date boom it's done it's over it gets released iteratively you have the head and then you need routing and head and tail and this and that and this and you gradually iterate and you run it first on the test net transactions are going through it stuff is happening and then after you've done that you know people start building gaps connected to it and then you just gradually see it roll out that's how you do these things but this guy he wants this date this day it's not how it works it's not how it works for any of this um um yeah this is another example clown where is the decks charles talk to sunday talk to mel talk to all these guys there's like 12 of them that are currently billing we're four months into smart contracts let's count that september and uh okay october november did i count that wrong did i did i count it wrong exactly did i i don't know how to count but all you do is sign useless mous so building relationships with heads of state nation states that control tens of millions of people and can bring in billions of transactions a month to our system is a bad deal okay i guess that's not my job and do ama so communicating with my community it's a bad deal oh okay and cherry pick questions well i took your question clown again and other devs do 100 hour work weeks so you want the ceo of the company to do 100 hour work weeks doing what exactly programming we are number one for github commits usually on uh for for development so tons of code is being written on a daily basis but maybe we should write more code okay hey we can be part of the 10.5 billion dollar club of money that was lost or stolen how about we do that well let's just abandon all of our principles right you know so we just just release and i hope it works who knows okay or we just do a tron let's just fork stuff take other people's stuff right so we could be fast to market right more clowns yeah that's the mindset you know charles jordan peterson has been having conversations on his podcast regarding the philosophical nature of crypto important for you to discuss the philosophy of crypto with him he'd love uh your vision i think so it'd be a lot of fun and next year we'll try to get on jordan's podcast and that's one you got to prepare for i got to reread maps of meaning and you know like eat my wheaties that that joe rogan the jordan rogan sandwich is gonna be it's gonna be a lot of fun what happened to the third hard fork that was going to be this year so we actually had one it was in october um we had uh mary in may we did the september hard fork and then we had a very small hard fork in october so there were three um but what happens we took some of the things that were slated for november and we decided to roll them into the february so that we could a larger release and do time-based releases it was just too much on the exchanges and other people to do back-to-back-to-back hard forks and also people need a little bit of time off between them so so the third hard fork happened but it was smaller than expected and that means the february hard fork will be larger than them anticipated to roll up all the stuff that was slated for november what's your favorite pink floyd song uh wish you were here hey charles thoughts on rebel paul he seems to fail to list cardano as a credible crypto i think he actually owns ada and i don't think he's ever said we're not credible and i've met him and i've been on real vision and so forth it's just there's so many of these projects out there and you know it's dogs are going crazy are we living in a simulation yeah you never i think we might be uh yeah i used to say no but now i'm more on the other side okay lots of dog barking where did the name cardano come from it came from giarlamo cartano it was an italian mathematician okay what do you feed your dogs the bones of my enemies charles vim versus neovim i'm a vim user sorry guys no emacs for me although if i start doing some racket programming you kind of have to live in the emacs world because that's like where lisp lives charles do you keep in contact with storm x crew at all i read you were helping them a few years back yeah i was an unpaid advisor years ago i never took anything for it and i like the kids there in particular reu she was there at the time and she's good friend and she's very nice but i haven't talked to them in years can smart contracts replace the role of lawyers no what they do is they give you a better way of debugging and testing legal arrangements and separating web from dry code i encourage you to read nick sabo's thoughts of the matter king of the rats meaning that actually comes from adam back called as king of the rats aydah a queen 380-ish well maybe but it's actually ada lovelace is the name for aydah she was a countess from the 19th century how were your talks in south africa president cyril ramaphosa are they waiting to use cardano for anything actually i was going to meet with cyril and i was at his house up in uh down in cape town and i spent time with his son tumelo ramaphosa but cyril had a scheduling issue so he could make it to dinner but we did have a great talk tomello and i and they were specifically about blockchain-based education in the democratic republic congo so the drc and also in south africa so we're going to loop in what we're doing in ghana into a more pan-african setup and work with an educational venture in south africa that also is sourcing in drc so that was the nature of that particular conversation um south africa was more for larger companies there like shoprite and the exchanges and opera and so forth why do you have a royal family photo on your twitter profile you know i tell people this story from time to time and as new people come in they don't know it so i'll tell it again real briefly so uh there's this concept called the social sinkhole and so if you look at sinkholes they don't form from the top down they form from the bottom up and then what happens is you're driving down the road if you're unlucky you fall into a sinkhole now thousands of cars every day will be going across that sinkhole not realizing they're driving over it so everything from the outside looks totally normal until that one day when you're unlucky and you just happen to be heavy enough and it happened to be weak enough and then boom this big pit materializes societies are the same way so for a long time you think the government's okay social structures are fine institutions are running everything is business as normal then suddenly it all falls apart and you look back and say how did this happen how did we not notice that so if you look at europe in the 19th century mostly led by kings and that pitcher is a great example of that that was the funeral of a british monarch who died right at the turn of the 19th to 20th century i think around 1910 and all those people controlled like a quarter of the world's resources and had the largest militaries were were basically really powerful people within 10 years at the end of world war one um those people most of them have been depowered some killed some deplatformed so in that picture people look at that and they say they control the world that's that institution but meanwhile there's a social sinkhole that's happening and everything falls to hell and then suddenly 10 years later none of those people really have as much relevance as they used to they're just gone and that's the that's the point of the picture is how quickly things can change and um how quickly uh society can change and so we look at the dollar it's absolutely supreme and 40 of the dollars in circulation have been brought in circulation last two years so we think the dollar is strong and powerful the us government's strong and powerful they keep making decisions like this that's accelerating the sinkhole you keep driving down that road but at some point something will happen another 2008 and then boom we all fall in it and you can put that flag in the background too they keep doing what they're doing mr hoskinson i'm a german mathematician well good to meet you house and holder since 2018 i'm a fan of single scotch malt whiskey please tell me about the tastier 38 year old whiskey greetings so uh it was a gordon mcfall that was a gift for the launch of gogan and it was really really good although i still prefer 21 year old hibiki and what field of mathematics are you in peter are you working with us government no we currently do not have a relationship with the us government u.s federal government hi charles sticking seems too good to be true and welcome to inflation you're starting to get it [Laughter] u.s government does this you see it's just it's inflation for the people not inflation for inflation for the bankers why did daniel friedman move to ergo he didn't move to ergo he took an advisor role at ergo but he's still my employee i should know because i cut the [Music] looking good charles wow thank you so much gotta clean up gear a little bit but i feel good i feel good yeah yeah we're getting there are you and vitalik good friends i wouldn't say that you know i don't have any ill will or animosity uh crypto media seems to really love building up this competition uh but to be honest uh i don't think he thinks much about me or of me and i tend not to think about him very much although i do praise him from time to time and it's one way in that respect and uh crypto media has really made him a big guy built him up and rightfully so built a 500 billion dollar ecosystem you know and uh ethereum has a great brand and a great ecosystem and so forth but can extended you tick cell live with the account model uh they're isomorphic to each other and they can definitely live together we wrote a paper called chimeric ledgers that explains that i think that they're complementary in a certain respect okay what an odd question cat girl arsenal generation four p-a-b what's your greatest fear come on now give me something interesting [Music] are there any javascript libraries being developed in order to query the cardona blockchain easily from the front yeah there's some work that's being done in that respect and uh i remember block frost and there's about a dozen other things that are floating around some are in that area some are written in rust because it's faster but it's definitely something we're looking into and i've been talking to the foundation about improving the javascript side of the world and i recommended writing a bunch of infrastructure and typescript something i think is uh is important um there's always this haskell to js jcjs and haskell web assembly and that's just not uh that's just not where we're we're not where we need to be with that there's a lot more work that needs to be done have you watched the new dune no i have not and i want to um trying to find that question there was a good one that i wanted to bring up let's see here runescape that's an oldie but a goodie [Music] bison hunts darling local bank ergo decks wingsuit tunnel come on guys let's hear metaverse startup ideas transaction academic publishing nothing yeah nothing really sexy here husky coin frank now let's see here is ada good wallet best eating chicken pork lamb bison beef or deer i'm a bison rancher sir so obviously bison thoughts on husky coin i don't know much about it i hear they want to give me some but i've talked to the team i don't know anything about it you know one of these days i'll pay attention to it i just haven't had the time and i've been pretty busy but it's nice that the community's doing stuff but again i don't know anything about husky coin and i'm glad that uh there's lots of things going on can you speak to the cult leader epithet that you've been given and how to manage the responsibility of your influence [Music] paul halmo's method tell them what you're going to do do it and tell them what you did and then you're done and move on uh so focus on decentralization focus on independence focus on balance of power and recognize wherever there's choke points or areas of centralization get rid of them they say cult leader i guess because i'm charismatic and the reality is that if you live in a world where cardano is a scam it's accomplished nothing and cardano has no value you have to then explain why cardano has value in a community so the only explanation they can give is that i'm some sort of sociopathic pathological lying cult leader who's you know having everybody drink some sort of digital kool-aid for this now look at where the real value comes from the code the community the projects the papers that's like the endeavors of thousands of hard-working people now two million in the ecosystem over a six-year period but apparently the critics want to live in this weird reality where a contradiction is true i'm incompetent have no technical skills can't do anything and i'm not even that smart not even an academic according to multitar monster all these things uh and yet at the same time i'm hyper charismatic and can mislead the world's top experts to put their brand and reputation and time their precious times the last six years into something that doesn't exist so i'm hyper competent and hyper incompetent and therefore call leader uh it's um it would be offensive if it wasn't so laughable if it wasn't so crazy you know and just so out there uh you know we built this whole movement on inclusive accountability your ability to verify truth yourself don't trust us trust the process in the system peer review for example i tell you who's a cult leader anybody who says buy now and if you don't buy now you're going to lose out i'll tell you who's a cult leader anybody who says just trust me we have the most brilliant people don't read the papers don't don't don't have any verification uh we don't even need to show you our code we don't need to show you anything but just trust us it's all gonna work out i'll tell you the calling people say we should stay in power forever and there should be no system in place to create decentralization and community level control we don't need independent funding sources for the progress of the system just trust our foundation and we'll be here forever that's called it's pretty culty you know or people who say there can never be any innovation only our protocol is the path to truth everything else is a scam and bad apparently the people who say think for yourself keep an open mind learn critical thinking skills those are the bad people according to the people who have this epithet you know it is what it is um i'm just a guy i build stuff i love my company i love the people i work with and we tell everybody what we're gonna do we do it that's what we're doing right now and after it's done we'll write a book about it and say what we did and if it works it'll have hundreds of millions of users and it'll speak for itself and i'll never get an apology because these it's just who these people are oh that was a good question mathematically based games let me find that actually i like that question all right have you ever considered going vegan well i did consider going well veganism's insanity you know it's like it's like you can't even eat milk and cheese well what if i milk the cow myself you know and i pet the cow every day and a cow's a happy cow no it's still animal abuse it's like okay uh vegetarianism it's not so bad um you know i think it might be fun to do that for six months to a year you know with drinking i do a year on year off so this is a wet year next year is a dry year i might do the same for me do a vegetarian year and do a non-vegetable year and see how i feel i've had some health issues here and there and i kind of work my way through them and i'm getting better working out every day but you know what it's uh it's a process do you have a favorite programming language i like three languages in particular i really enjoy javascript i like python and i like haskell you know they all do very different things is if you're doing scientific computing uh python is just unparalleled and especially with the all the r integrations numpy and r uh and just all of that's great so if you're data scientists these are your meat and potatoes your sage plus your r grade javascript is the lingua franca of the web and it's just a way of thinking about how to interact with the web which is very productive and then haskell is really just mathematics made into code it's it's this pureness about it that is just so beautiful and it's becoming actually useful because of all the work we've done with cardano actually show you could write real applications god it was hard but now that we've done it we've trailblazed and the road looks a lot better hey charles what's the meaning of life uh take a look at my answer to that question on the lex friedman podcast uh all right let's see here been watching your amas now for four years now love them all oh thank you so much that's really cool logan the lobster he's back at the office logan the lobster dude are those masks on the wall from all the orgies you've been to you know i'm gonna have to ask your mom about that she keeps track of that does quantum computing threaten cryptographic security i don't believe so there's a question here why number three apparently the questions come so quickly that right when i'm just about to click one i lose it so i'll have to set some sort of slow mode up immunization industry how are you planning to handle damage migrant mitigation and the inevitable onslaught of regulation we're already prepared for it with dids and metadata and the way that we've built a very decentralized model and the centralized fundraising card has really been constructed in a way that regardless of whatever the regulatory regime is we are in my view the best prepared cryptocurrency to handle that especially in the d5 space defy is was going to get hammered you guys a lot of these things like dexes and so forth basically are a regulated financial vehicle and the only reason that they're not regulated at the moment is the regulator hasn't quite figured out how they want to apply regulation but it's one of those follow the money type of deals they'll just start throwing regulation at whoever made the most money and see if it sticks or not and they probably can get away with it so there needs to be a completely different mindset about how you handle that reality for d5 and we have all these beautiful tools that we've constructed with prism and the metadata standard the governance system of cardano like for example in ethereum land every single defy has to figure out how to become a dao once we solve the whole dalification of cardano with catalyst because of the native multi-asset standard every single application on cardano can leverage catalyst as governance as a service for their community with that same level of decentralization that's just one of dozens of things that we thought about over the last six years and talked about and said boy this is coming and so forth we thought about all of this our competitors they're sitting here just like oh god what do we do about it oh no and we're just like oh yeah we know exactly what to do we're building our way towards that it's already happening in parallel with all the other things so i don't worry about it at all i really don't i think it's uh you know it's a minor thing for us huge thing for them but don't worry network effect network effect move fast and break things they get the money you get the bill hey charles you have tractor i do got a massey ferguson got some john deere's got a few things is iohk struggling to find good employees we see so many open positions no not at all we're just growing by leaps and bounds we're probably going to hire two to 300 more people we're not losing people we're adding we might even be at 800 employees 900 employees just there's so much stuff going on ugh what is that you're drinking coffee hot strong and black are you in touch with gavin wood not really every now and then we talk to each other over email but uh not really how does iohk earn money it's very simple people come to us we sell services and we make time and materials some cases equity or other things from performing development services transformational services these types of things we have product lines like prism where we have enterprise stuff we bill for we have a per user subscription fee we charge because what we're profitable we make more than we spend go figure and we're growing like crazy iot iog yes input output global is the parent company of iohk do you still actively work on cardinal's code base no i never have i've always been in an architecture and business requirement product owner role in that respect so we say these are the things that we need but you know being a distributed systems engineer is its own domain you have 15 20 years of experience phd it's like a big deal it's like think of it like you have a primary care physician and you're responsible for the overall health of the patient and then there's something wrong with a particular organ like they have a liver problem so you send them to a specialist and they go to a hepatologist or a surgeon and they take care of it that's kind of the same with me so i sit at the coordinating role and i talk about the overall stuff and then you have sub-specialties cryptographers and distributed systems people and top software engineers and they uh they do their stuff dear charles question about the pond versus the ocean there's also the island by the way if you allow programmers to write smart contracts stuff other than haskell don't you lose the benefits of haskell yes you lose it for that smart contract in that computing model which is why side chains is so important because you can bulkhead side chains in a way where they don't cascade and create problems for the main network but that's very astute which is why you have different computing models for high assurance software you do that in the good languages trying to click and it's just so fast how exactly are side chains that allow programming smart contracts in imperial languages compatible with core they're aggregated they're separated systems that's the power of side chains you that was the point of the original architecture of cardano which other people with polka dot and parachains and f2 have been chasing we refer to market to publish this model you say you have a settlement layer which is your root of trust of the system and that's built with a certified core so you know it works really really well and then you have such a protocol that allows you to move information and value between these side chains and you use the root of trust at the base level to bootstrap high performance permission sidechains and those side chains run different computing models they can run account space with evm or they could be a plutus with extended utxo but a much faster consensus model you can do anything you want with side chains and what happens is that you inter you interact kind of like through an api kind of like through rest you know kind of you just query you talk from one chain to the other chain and you can pull state information from one system to the other system but you don't have to know how that system's implemented it's a black box in that respect that's the power and why this model is so scalable because you can just launch as many of these things as you want and it's just the carrying capacity of the system okay and here's a great question charles is there some sort of incentive program for people wishing to contribute to the ecosystem proving documentation writing javascript sdks there are two funding sources cardano foundation and catalyst catalyst has over a billion dollars the foundation has over a billion dollars of value so there's definitely incentive systems and i o we're saturated we're spending tens of millions of dollars fielding a small army of people on our side to build out core infrastructure but then all the surrounding infrastructure the foundation has to carry its way and catalyst has already been putting money out for things like block frost and so forth and that's going to continue and get more aggressive next year but come january i'm going to zurich we're going to sit down with the foundation we're going to have a real conversation about cardona the open source project and things like bug bounties and these incentives and infrastructure that you better believe we're going to get very aggressive about making sure that that billion dollars gets spent so that it gets into the ecosystem that's the community's okay foundations for you they have that money and they better spend it for you guys and every month will get louder community get louder there's a completely independent board there's an independent executive they've approved a 25 million dollar budget for fiscal year 2022 uh it's time to go it's time to start moving you know we're carrying our weight it's not a funding problem by the way the money is there it's just a leadership and execution and capacity and that's a very important thing testing testing okay i think the mic is on okay hey charles i want to integrate mental health maintenance on the cardinal blockchain how can my cambridge research team get to you for a meeting uh well igor you don't have to talk to me to do something again use catalyst and idea scale this is the best place there's over 50 000 people that are there to analyze and to mentor and to discuss and debate and get funding to help you get where you need to go i'm worried about infrastructure like getting hydra where it needs to be in the pab where it needs to be and getting us through the next few hfc events and making sure the open source project builds out and so forth that said i do care about mental health uh especially how can we find clever ways to incentivize certain things and one of the areas that i've actually been looking at is how do you use brain computer interfaces with trusted hardware and a proof of human protocol that hong shang came up with to actually create an incentive for people to practice mindfulness meditation and actually i'm meeting with several bci vendors for example i think on monday i'm meeting with the kernel people and this is one of the things that will invariably come up there is just so much amazing bci technology and being able to create incentives for people to get into a flow state uh or into a mindfulness state is a really powerful thing and that'd be a really cool layer two protocol to put on to cartano uh you know we call it tranquil or something like that are other crypto stealing cardano's work accomplished through peer-reviewed papers you cannot steal a peer-reviewed paper as long as you cite it you give attribution to it you can't steal it that's the point of open source and that's the point of these publications they want to go and implement all the power to them and actually helps us we learn from that implementation yeah that would be so cool yeah and actually uh basically you have a token model where when you meditate it's like mining but it's mining with your mind it's pretty cool stuff and these are the kinds of things that you do when you have the right protocols and so in practice the user experience would be that you would have a device with a unique hardware id and trusted hardware connected to a brain computer interface that's network enabled your first step would be doing a puzzle which would prove that you are a human being and associate that with the did of the hardware device for a time period like an hour two hours whatever and then you would synchronize and then you would play a puzzle and there would be um probably a two-part game where there would be someone some agent monitoring the puzzle and then some agents solving the puzzle and it's meditation that does that and then going through that whole process that interactive protocol will allow you to generate some sort of commitment and then that commitment would get put onto the cardinal blockchain so probably a hash of some information and then what would occur is over a period of time maybe a few hours or something there would be an unveiling and then one of the commitments would be lucky and win that round and get some tokens for that so it's one of the it's your mining with your mind and you can kind of join a mining pool a mind pool a scion pool that's a pretty cool name and that would basically be the uh the the how you'd handle reward variants uh so i've been thinking about this for a long time and it'd be a really cool fun protocol to implement and we can easily put it on cardano all the mechanics are already there so cardano's 100 ready for such a protocol to run on it and then there's a question of well what do you want to solve with these blocks or these types of things and it's an interesting question uh foreign [Music] dear charles rib eye versus sirloin you gotta ask come on rib eyes son rib eye like that fat medium rare too you get that anything over medium and kick your ass all right so uh let's go ahead and share my screen real quick something i want to show you guys so we used to do the whole kiva thing and i really like kiva i really enjoy it but actually if you take a look at possession this is one of the partners that we've been building with and so we're building a lot of infrastructure out with possession and we're going to do a blockchain based uh reputation system and we're going to a b test the npl rate the non-performing loan rate with possessions on the news system and uh hopefully we're actually going to be able to build an entire microfinance marketplace they work with a lot of different ventures they're based in kenya and they're starting to scale up and they're led by a really amazing team so this right here is hilda and she uh she's just a really smart gal she was a computer scientist and got offered a job at google but decided to go to work for coca-cola in kenya instead and then she did that for a while and then got into the microfinance businesses and been in the microfinance business for a long time and she's learned a huge amount i think she has a phenomenal product so this is kind of our entry point into uh our entry point into there we go our entry point into the uh space uh the mfi space and we'll be able to i think build a whole peer-to-peer lending marketplace with them and it can be an integration that's coming into the light wallet that we're building and deploying uh next year so that's an example of the dap ecosystem and marketplace you know you build this great infrastructure you can open up the modules and just decide what you want you click your decks and that comes in there you click your peer-to-peer lending marketplace that comes in there all those things are being designed and we have some great ui ux firms we're working with to kind of figure out how to do these things now the instruments you'd lend would be things for example like jed because it's a stable coin and there's actually already in kenya great infrastructure to convert crypto for less than one percent fees so you can do stable coins fast conversion really fast lending and the terms of these loans are usually monthly about three percent per month which is seems high but it's actually half or third of the price of conventional microfinance in kenya so that is a uh that is a good uh good example of innovation and in 2022 we're working our way towards that kiva kind of showed the power of these models and now we can move in that direction and unlike king kiva you can actually get a return on these things so it's really cool to see that uh people are are moving in that direction and possession particular is one of my favorite ventures and i just really like the ceo and i like the team and i like their outlook and i just like the innovation that they've done and they have a continental view they want to really be pan-africa and get everywhere all right we'll clip it there thank you so much guys this was a lot of fun as always and i'll see you next week
