hey everybody this is Charles broadcasting live from warm sunny New York City it's been a pretty long series of days I started in Mongolia and I've come out here to New York and yesterday we we had consensus and the big polymath event and there was a bit of confusion about the the polymath side on the Cardinal side and people are trying to understand what is the relationship between polymath and Cardinal and also all these other projects that I work on or have a personal relationship with with Cardinal itself so first off it's important understand that I actually run two companies one is I ohk and that's my full-time job and then I run a much smaller consulting company called Hoskinson Consulting Group so a little LLC based in Colorado and the point of that organization is basically to be my consulting arm right it's not directly connected to I ohk and when people ask me to consult on a project that's usually the legal entity that I engage people through just to keep things somewhat separated mostly I consult on projects that are either building block chains or they need some strategic advice about technology or you know certain things like zero knowledge proof or multi-party computation and they bring me on board for various questions some are public relationships some are not public relationships but generally speaking when I consult with a project I try to consult with a project that is complementary to products that are in the Iowa cave portfolio and I always get approval from the other principals at Iowa --jq a before I take a product for consulting so in particular the case of polymath Cardno being a financial operating system within the developing world we're continuously approached by people who do want to do some form of a security token offering and frankly we need some form of standard within the Cardinal ecosystem for that I'm a big believer in multi model thinking I'm a bleep believer in multi standards so instead of saying we're just going to pick one thing and that one thing is going to rule them all I think it's really important that we take a step back and we say well there is no one of anything there's no one religion there's no one country there's there's no one vocation the reality is that you need different things for different people in different circumstances so to me it's important that I exposed myself to as many different notions of what security tokens are all about so that we can pick the right set of features and functionality for Cardno itself polymath is the leader in the industry 126 companies have done some form of security token issuance using the polymath framework and they've amassed an enormous amount of experience and they've had good relationships with both regulators investment banks and also the broader community that is thinking about the security token side so the odds are that if there was ever going to be some form of market standard that we'd need to be interoperable with it's likely going to come from the polymath side so it's incredibly important the very least that Iowa HK myself and polymath are engaged in some form of conversation at least for Standardization that said I firmly believe that the notion of a security is going to be changed over the next 10 years to 20 years to a point where different jurisdictions have different mindsets and that you know we have a bit more freedom perhaps in emerging economies like Mongolia and Ethiopia Rwanda Uganda and so forth so what that means is that we likely could at a public protocol level have securities trading in those types of ecosystems whereas in rigid marketplaces where you have will define actors highly regulated actors such as the United States Europe and so forth there you're probably going to need a special-purpose hybrid blockchains that define the roles of those actors very explicitly and those can be updated rather rapidly and also you may need to do things that are antithetical to the philosophy of blockchain technology for example reverse transactions frees people's accounts to anonymize a ledger and so forth so it does make sense to have a special-purpose blotching or for those types of use cases and it would probably be a really bad idea to go hand china the ability to unwind at the Cardinal ledger or D anonymize your accounts or reverse transactions whereas if you're dealing with a heavily regulated marketplace and you're holding a special purpose asset you kind of signed up for that then it does make sense to have a specialty framework that does have the ability to do that in that particular circumstance and this is kind of the uneasy tension of this industry where some cases the things that we'd like to do that are ethically aligned or philosophically aligned with bitcoins original intent are probably not going to map well into the regulated world so I firmly believe you're going to need different standards and you're going to need different ecosystems for these these two issues that said Cardno is intended to be a financial operating system for people who don't have one which means that standards for lending insurance remittance as the issuance and trading of securities have not been set and there is an opportunity that we can bring people into a philosophy that we feel is more ethical and more moral and that will probably work very well in jurisdictions like Ethiopia and Mongolia and so forth it's probably not gonna work so well in jurisdictions like the United States so I don't see anything I'm doing with polymesh as in some way mutually exclusive or incompatible with what we do with card ah no I think both of them actually are gonna end up existing in the same ecosystem they're just going to do different things for different types of users and ultimately can both learn from each other you know it's so good to work with a team that has over three years of experience with security tokens and these assets excuse me alarm is going off [Music] and that's a valuable experience for me and I could either go and try to learn it myself and build coalitions and spend three years piecing things together or even if we're doing it faster a year or two but that also means then that we'd be four years behind the market standard the same thing the same thing that needs to be thought about is also standards for the decentralized identifiers standards for metadata standards for interoperability this is again a situation where there are ideals that we think would be nice to have like for example in the case of identity we have things like the self sovereign identity you know we'd say wow it'd be really awesome if you're in control of your own identity the government can't come in and shut it off can't take it from you strip it from you kind of like revoking a passport or shut you out of marketplaces and again this is another case of where you have a principals versus pragmatism divide or certain jurisdictions for example China they want to be in complete control of people's identities to the extent that they've embraced a system called Social Credit and what that basically means is that everything you do is going to either give you a higher number or a lower number and the lower that number goes the less access you have to society and to extent where eventually AR will be used to create a starlet digital Scarlet Letter or you've become an outcast almost like an untouchable if your number is too low that's a very dystopian future and Cardinal will never support any identity system that promotes that whereas other currencies may do so so so we have to take a highly principled position with with identity and that means certain marketplaces will probably be either blacklisted or less popular with but it's the moral and right thing to do so in other cases for example things like interoperability standards like lightning standards like inter ledger things we're doing with NEPA piles you know there's not a big philosophical objection to supporting one or the other so the odds are we probably will support multiple interoperability standards we Cardinal and in the case of things like security tokens I think it's just important for the consumer to be informed that when they hold an asset that asset may have embedded within it certain capabilities that breach the original social contract of Bitcoin yeah for example immutability a reversibility and and basically total control over it so as long as a person is inform they consent to that then that's that's fine so our hope is to take that position on the card on Oh side and leave it to other systems to handle those particular facilities one last comment there's also the relationship between atala and cardinal and we still do get some criticism and some flak here the reality is that if if you're going to build systems that involve blockchain the first question you have to ask is well who needs to be in control of that and then second would it be a wise idea to try to create a one size fits all or is it good to create custom systems for custom problems and demands so I'll give you example of one particular pilot that we're exploring in Mongolia and kind of it allows us to discuss the relationship between ekala and Cardno as well as you know local facilities so right now we're in discussions to do an IOT air quality pilot in Mongolia ulaanbataar has actually some of the worst air in the entire world during the wintertime hundreds of thousands of garre's come close to the city into the gare district and they burn shoes charcoal would sometimes tires basically anything that cannot allow them stay warm during the brutal winters and they can beat down at negative 50 so the problem is when you have hundreds of thousands of people during winter in a valley in a stagnant air area of burning tires that creates horrific ly bad air a lot of bad chemicals in the air so there's been a lot of attempts to try to understand this problem and solve this problem but before you can do anything you need a good sensor system that allows you to know where the pollution is and why it's there and allows you to do targeted enforcement well we said boy it'd be really cool to do a project where we put tens of thousands of sensors throughout Roulin powder and then we connect them together over a series of gateways and then in some way we aggregate that information and we make sure that it's auditable time-stamped and the information is immutable or at least some form of representation so it's a perfect example of where we think we can actually layer solutions to solve a problem so what we'll do is use Atalla to link gateways for those sensors together and then create some form of a distributed hash table and changes to that which represent the totality of the information that's actually being stored and then the actual information can be stored anywhere in any standard database so even if that database gets manipulated the audit trail of it is what is actually protected by the blockchain but a lot of trails still quite large and there's a lot of role processing that's required to do with that I and so then what we can do is take a hash of that audit trail and then store that as a checkpoint on the card on a blockchain so it's kind of the best of both worlds we're one system audits the other system and you have hundreds of thousands of transactions to millions of transactions per day occurring with small low powered sensors in this one system and those are all free transactions and those are happening within the Attalla system and then you use that system to audit the main data set and then you audit the audited set using car knobs so you have two layers of security with the solution and you have a nice hybridized solution there now I one thing we've been thinking about is what would it be possible to give people a dynamic incentive to create their own sensors and put those sensors in so right now this models tell hierarchal where I buy the sensors I buy the gateways and I connected to some database and then I it's my responsibility or the responsibility of our partners in Mongolia to somehow monetize that or make that sustainable what if there was a social incentive program where just by measuring the air the government would pay you or some entity would would give you an incentive maybe discounts on products and services what's a loyalty token or a payment token so you could create a token with the Cardinal framework and the Cardinal eco system that would then be interoperable with the atala ledger you'd then be able to every time someone creates an air sensor and starts measuring things from Cardno use a smart contract to connect with that system and periodically pay you for having that sensor so that would be an example of where these systems can work together so one way the Cardinal acts as an auditor of last resort for this particular enterprise system and in the other way Cardinal acts as a system where you'd issue kind of a payment token or you know a loyalty token that you would then give to people for doing something within that permission system and then both sides help each other there's in the IOT case it would be not really a good idea to put millions of small readings on the card on a blockchain that would mean everybody who ever used Cardinal would have to deal with all that bloat and a lot of that's gonna be aggregated and thrown away anyway so it's just senseless to try to put that into one system makes a lot more sense to put it off chain but then on the other hand if you're having a currency you'd like to know the government can't steal it from you and you'd like to be able to spend it anywhere you want and you'd like it to be like cash and so it makes a lot more sense to have that handled by the Cardinal system you know that both these systems can be put together and interplay like that so a lot of the atala pilots that we're looking at involve this type of relationship where you know one side handles data intensive things or things where you're just going to have a small group of federated actors working together and then on the other hand there's some sort of connection where Cardinal can act as an auditor or card ah don't act as an issue of a currency and so forth we imagine the same thing could end up happening with exchange services as well where basically you have exchanges running permission Ledger's and people have side-chain transactions to them as opposed to actually sending a transaction on a live public system because then they at least have more control of that event hacks so anyway that's a bit about what we're working on and a bit about what I personally work on and you know I have a lot of relationships so we talk to a lot of different entities from stephen wolfram mathematica guys because they're heavily involved in the Oracle business by kind of by coincidence as a result of Wolfram Alpha so we need to understand their standards what they're doing we talked to people like the chain-link guys we talked to basically everybody on everything from Oracle's to identity to metadata standards to token standards to formal method standards and some cases it makes sense for Cardno to collaborate and cooperate some cases they're somewhat separate but ultimately we always try to philosophically build something where everything is self consistent and they all fit together so if I ever become an aetherium core developer or Eos core developer I think you guys have something to worry about but these projects I think they're all quite complimentary and we're just going to keep operating that way so thank you very much for listening and I hope this brings some clarity to people and it's nice to see that we have such great partners and it's nice to see that we have an opportunity to sit at the table as the world starts making new standards for the blockchain space and for the next generation of Finance and that we can hopefully guarantee that these standards are interoperable with cardinal and cardano's ultimate success Cheers
